Is the presence of God in Hell for Eternity?

StefanM;
Ok. I can reluctantly agree with your clarification.:smilewinkgrin:

Marcia;
2Th 1:5
¶ Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Taken in the context in which that text is given it is obvious that "from the presence" does not mean 'away from the presence' but rather 'by means of the presence' of the Lord. This has been a very grievous error on the part of many in Christendom in my opinion. Hell is NOT eternal seperation from God. In fact as I stated earlier...IF God is Omnipresent then there is no place to be apart from Him. The difference being discussed here is which way does God manifest Himself to both the saved and the lost. "It is a fearful thing to fall INTO the hands of the Living God." Just because our puny minds have trouble with the concept does not make it untrue. God is certainly present in hell. However; it would be very frightening indeed to see that side of Him!!!

Straight n Narrow;
See my reply to Marcia. Your "belief" does not square with the total revelation of God in the Bible. It is just so much wishful thinking to assume God is not present in hell. It is also a dreamworld which portrays hell as simply being apart from God.

 

Why is it "wishful thinking" to say that all those who are damned to Hell are separated from God for all eternity? Your position is the one that is not Biblical.

 

Ps 139:7
¶ Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Ps 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.:wavey:

 

So which of these could not be done by a mind? The mind is a very powerful unknown. The Bible teaches God is Spirit. His papers argued the separation and definition of spirit and soul then concluded with Mind theory. It was brilliant in my view.

I couldn't find his papers so I won't try to explain his view again.

 

I see what you are saying, and I agree God is Spirit. So he is not just Mind. Mind is a part of a being. God does not have "parts." He's all of his attributes together and equally.

Saying God is Mind is just too much like Christian Science and some other similar Mind Science cults for me.

The Bible says God is Spirit, not God is Mind.

 

"Hell" here is referring to the grave.

 

So....heaven is just the sky then huh?

No cookies for you my friend.

As you may know; Hebrew poetry is written many times in contrasts. If 'hell' is simply the grave then 'heaven' is simply the sky. As you may also know; the Bible many times has compounded meanings in the same passage.

If 'heaven'= paradise here then 'hell'= firey torment.

No, my sister, hell is hell.

God's presence is in hell OR God is NOT Omnipresent.

 

Heaven was often just the sky or "up there." So the grave can be the opposite of the sky because the grave is in the earth.

According to my sources, the Hebrew word for "heaven" here also means sky. It was also used in the context of astrology - as in dividing up the sky (since there is no Hebrew word for astrologer, but there are terms referring to the practice).

The word translated as "hell" is Sheol. Sheol does not mean hell as in the lake of fire, which is the hell we are talking about here.

 

Nice footwork there lady but you stumbled at the Word of God, again.
And you failed to address or intentionaly ignored the fact that Scripture often has compounded meanings.

And you have yet to address the hard fact that God is Ominpresent.

Therefore; there is NO place one can be apart from His Presence.

 

And you fail to address the meaning of Sheol.

 

Here is something I compiled about hell which may or may not help. My position, by the way, is that God's presence is in "Hell" but not in the lake of fire.

I. A Short History of Hell
a. Sheol means the grave, hell or death
i. Psalm 9:17 – A place for the wicked
ii. Psalm 88:3 – David expected to go there
b. Hades
i. NT Equivalent
ii. Used 42 times
c. Sheol and Hades are not Hell
i. Refer to where all dead go temporarily
ii. Three Compartments – Luke 16:19-31
1. Paradise or Abraham’s Bosom
2. A Great Gulf
3. A place of suffering
iii. When Christ died on the Cross and then ascended He removed those in ‘Paradise’ to Heaven.
1. Thief on cross – Today with me in Paradise
2. Christ is ascended so when Paul says in II Corinthians 5:8 that to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord we must go up, not down (OT Sheol always down)
d. Gehenna – Specifically refers to Hell
i. Christ used the word 11 times
ii. James uses it once (James 3:6)
iii. Refers to a specific place
1. Valley of Hinnom
2. Tophet/Topheth
3. Originally a place of death and human sacrifice but after Josiah became a place of general refuse.
4. A fire always burned there
e. A Prepared Place for an Unprepared People
i. Matthew 25:41
ii. They are cursed, because they refused to be blessed; and they are damned, because they refused to be saved.
f. The Lake of Fire – Revelation 20:7-15
i. Satan never goes to Hell
ii. Death and Hell/Hades/Sheol are cast into the lake of Fire