Is the soul created?

[Jim1999]

Just when does the soul enter the being of man? Is it at conception? If so, does this make God the author of sin, since all are born in sin ad trespasses? Is the soul an integral part of man, and not created at all?

Please use logic in replies and don't just quote scriptures. Most of us are well aware of the scriptures.

Then, is there an answer? Or, is this just one of those mysteries that will be answered only in eternity?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

I believe the soul is present at conception -- but sorry, I can't go into this now as I'm leaving town to speak in PA.

I'll try to get back to this in a few days! :wavey:

 

[BobRyan]

I don't believe you have a soul completed until you have a body to put it into -- and single celled organism's do not have souls. My finger does not have a soul for example. If I lose it - I am not "less of a soul" nor do we have "a dead soul" in the form of my severed finger.

Just my thoughts.

 

[webdog]

Wouldn't being predesinated for salvation from before the foundation of the earth suggest our soul existed prior to being born? I don't believe this, just wondering.

 

[Jim1999]

Bob, I think there is logic in what you say. It still leaves the question, Is the soul created by God, or is it a part of natural selection,,,,the human growth and procreation process? If the sould is created, how does one escape God as the author of sin, since all men are created in sin and trespasses?

Or, is a soul created at the moment of regeneration? Hence, the original sin question and God's pure creation is settled, at least in my mind.

This would leave man with a body and spirit at birth, and this is why we often confuse the use of "soul" and "spirit" in the English scriptures.

Afraid, just a lot of questions at this point.

Cheers, and thanks,

Jim

 

[menageriekeeper]

Very interesting theory, Jim. I'll have to do some studying on it.

There is a certain logic in what you are saying.

 

[LeBuick]

Bob, I think there is logic in what you say. It still leaves the question, Is the soul created by God, or is it a part of natural selection,,,,the human growth and procreation process? If the sould is created, how does one escape God as the author of sin, since all men are created in sin and trespasses?

Jim

I would have to say it is the soul that each of uniquely receives from GOD. You get many of your other features from the law called heredity but your soul is uniquely yours. I believe souls are with GOD initially, and he places them in the earthly vessel at the point of birth. I also believe it leaves at the point of death.

I derive this from Adam, GOD formed Adam from the dust of the ground but it was not until GOD breathed into him the breath of life that he became a living soul. I believe it's at the point of birth that GOD makes each of us a living soul.

You ever see a still born? They have a heart, lungs, brain and everthing any other baby has at birth, except a living soul...

 

[Jim1999]

LeBuick, at what point is that soul, created by God, freed from original sin...since all men are born in sin and trespasses? I still have that original sin problem, and God creating that soul.

I have always followed the views of Luther and Augustine, in theology, the Traducian Theory....that the human race was immediately created in Adam and propogated from him by natural generation. To my mind, it resolves the issue of original sin.......

The traditional Reformed view was Creationist, but they resolved original sin in infant baptism and covenantism.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

Having a sinful nature and being in sin are completely two different things. The only thing pronounced upon the body at the time of birth is the natural death as I see it. You have to know what sin is to sin and an infant knows only that it should breathe and that it is hungry, and even forgets to do that sometimes and dies.

We believe that a pre-born baby will be in Heaven but at conception? Who really knows to be completely honest. When can it begin to think is when I believe there is a soul but I truthfully do not know when that is. I know they start kicking but is that a reflex or are they thinking. Its a good question. peace,

 

[genesis12]

The breath of life breathed into Adam created a living being. That is the correct interpretation of "soul" in context. A living being has a brain. The brain is the source of mind, will, and emotions. Mind, will, and emotions = soul. Soul is not a spirit or a ghost that comes from God to live inside of us. It is not imparted to us. It is separate and distinct from the spirit of righteousness imparted to each new Believer at the moment of salvation. It is that entity which eventually becomes locked in battle with the spirit of righteousness, the age-old battle of the flesh against the spirit, the battle that every emerging Christian seeks to win, not in his/her own power, but through the Holy Spirit, who comes alongside. It has its beginning at the moment of conception. I know a/an RN who works in an emergency room for newborns. She can tell you all about the mind, will, and emotions of newborns. She is intimately acquainted with the will of the child to live, the emotional cries, the searching eyes and ears, the trembling.

When our African-American acquaintances talk about having "soul" they aren't talking about a ghost. They are talking about attitudes and behaviors that have developed over the years. "Soul" is there at conception and takes on learned behaviors in response to the environment, including other people.

Since we are born outside of Eden, we are "lost" and needing to be found. The state of being lost is called original sin. To that state of being we add negative and positive learned behaviors, speech patterns, inherited traits, and so on: daily sins. The rebellious soul (mind, will, emotions) will one day be confronted by the Truth of God's Word. That is when the battle begins. We Christians are charged to witness to those who are "lost" outside of Eden, to come to that place where the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is imparted to them. Who did you witness to today? Who will you witness to tomorrow? How will you tell someone how to be free from the sin and sins debt? How to become "unlost"? John 3:16-17, John 14:6, Romans 10:8-13. :flower:

 

[Gershom]

Is the child at the moment of conception guilty of sin even though it has done nothing contrary to the law?

God created Adam and gave him his soul - Adam sinned. Does this make God the author of sin?

God also created others that sinned. Does this make God the author of sin? He created the father of lies, does this make Him the creator of sin?

 

[mojoala]

Just when does the soul enter the being of man? Is it at conception? If so, does this make God the author of sin, since all are born in sin ad trespasses? Is the soul an integral part of man, and not created at all?

Please use logic in replies and don't just quote scriptures. Most of us are well aware of the scriptures.

Then, is there an answer? Or, is this just one of those mysteries that will be answered only in eternity?

Cheers,

Jim

You want find that in scripture. Anything anyone says will be theory.

 

[Jim1999]

There is a difference. Adam was created by God whole and without sin. Obviously God is not the author of sin..........Subsequent men were born in sin and trespasses.......No fault of God, but in Adam all have sinned, including the infant.

If, however, God creates each soul in the womb, this would make God the author of the sinful estate, in my reasoning. That is the question....

Thus far, I remain with Luther, Tertullian and Augustine with the traducian theory of the origin of the soul.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

If, however, God creates each soul in the womb, this would make God the author of the sinful estate, in my reasoning. That is the question....

I disagree, it is the flesh that is in a sinful state not the soul. The only reason the flesh is in a sinful state is because Adam sinned not the infant. Again, I say being in a sinful state does not send you to the second death. You must sin on your own. Being in a sinful state only sends your flesh to a natural and if you never sin then you soul will never die but when you come to know sin and then the commandments enter the soul that sinneth shall die. How can it die if it is already dead.

Oh, this is my 3000th post

 

[genesis12]

Q: Is the child at the moment of conception guilty of sin even though it has done nothing contrary to the law? A: The child is born outside of Eden, lost, needing to be found. That's original sin en toto.

Q: God created Adam and gave him his soul - Adam sinned. Does this make God the author of sin? A: God created a living being. Adam yielded to temptation. He had a choice.

Q: God also created others that sinned. Does this make God the author of sin? He created the father of lies, does this make Him the creator of sin? A: The others were also born outside of Eden. All have a choice. Even Lucifer had a choice before the foundation of the world. It is not God's Will that any should perish..

Being born outside of Eden, outside of God's perfect estate, beyond the gate, leaves one an orphan. Until someone comes along to adopt the orphan, he/she is lost. Being lost is being outside of God's Will, outside of God's perfect estate. The next obvious question is, if a child does not accept Jesus Christ as Savior before the so-called "age of accountability" does the child remain lost, even for eternity!!?? raying:

I think you should treat, Bob. 3,000 posts ought to be celebrated!

 

[mojoala]

Adam was created without sin.
Adam sinned.
Adam did not pass this sin on thru his sperm.
Adam impregnated Eve.
Child is born without Sin.
Child never sins.
Child is never made aware of Jesus.
Child dies at a ripe old age.
Where does child go?
Hell or Heaven?

 

[JFox1]

Just when does the soul enter the being of man? Is it at conception? If so, does this make God the author of sin, since all are born in sin ad trespasses? Is the soul an integral part of man, and not created at all?

Please use logic in replies and don't just quote scriptures. Most of us are well aware of the scriptures.

Then, is there an answer? Or, is this just one of those mysteries that will be answered only in eternity?

Cheers,

Jim

Here is a link to a very good article about the soul. It deals with creationism, traductionism, whether or not God is the author of sin, whether or not your soul came from God or from your parents, and other issues:

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9306fea3.asp

 

[Brother Bob]

Q: Is the child at the moment of conception guilty of sin even though it has done nothing contrary to the law? A: The child is born outside of Eden, lost, needing to be found. That's original sin en toto.

Why did Jesus pick up a little child and say "such is the Kingdom of Heaven" not going to be. A child is not lost until they sin.

Q: God created Adam and gave him his soul - Adam sinned. Does this make God the author of sin? A: God created a living being. Adam yielded to temptation. He had a choice.

The creature (Adam) was made subject to vanity (by God's Sovereignity and Will), not willinly but by reason of Him(Jesus) subjected the same in Hope. (God made man where he could choose good or evil or God must of been stupid when He told Adam not to eat of the tree of Knowledge.

Q: God also created others that sinned. Does this make God the author of sin? He created the father of lies, does this make Him the creator of sin? A: The others were also born outside of Eden. All have a choice. Even Lucifer had a choice before the foundation of the world. It is not God's Will that any should perish..

If Lucifer was and is the Devil He too sinned later not at first, so I suspect He to made that choice.

Being born outside of Eden, outside of God's perfect estate, beyond the gate, leaves one an orphan. Until someone comes along to adopt the orphan, he/she is lost. Being lost is being outside of God's Will, outside of God's perfect estate. The next obvious question is, if a child does not accept Jesus Christ as Savior before the so-called "age of accountability" does the child remain lost, even for eternity!!?? raying:

Again, "such is the Kingdom of Heaven". Where there is no law there is not transgression and to sin one must transgress the Law and the Law has never entered a child. It even forgets to breathe sometimes and dies.

 

[Brother Bob]

Adam was created without sin.
Adam sinned.
Adam did not pass this sin on thru his sperm.
Adam impregnated Eve.
Child is born without Sin.
Child never sins.
Child is never made aware of Jesus.
Child dies at a ripe old age.
Where does child go?
Hell or Heaven?

If what you just said then the child would not even have to die the natural death. We are all multiplied Adam and "it was once appointed unto man to die (because of Adam's sin) and after death the judgement. When Adam sinned He brought the natural death on all mankind including Himself and brought the Spiritual death upon Himself.

 

[genesis12]

When Adam sinned He brought the natural death on all mankind including Himself and brought the Spiritual death upon Himself.

Is a child born "not guilty" of original sin? :flower: