Is the US the Babylon of Rev. 18?

Hope of Glory
The pope appreciates your flattery, but there are only about 1 billion RC's on earth at the moment.

 

Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

I believe this is a very important topic for the following reason:
the Bible says

1Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Well one of those mysteries is in fact Babylon

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Stewards must be faithul in expounding this mystery.

Here I must say the following. Certainly spritiual elements of this Babylon can be found anywhere, and certainly the states, but that doesn't make the U.S. the Babylon of Revelation 17. Nor in fact any other nation. It will be noted that Babylon is said to be a CITY

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

It also fits on seven mountains

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The angel just gave the literal interpretation, moving from the heads to the mountains, so we cannot in turn claim that the mountains are figurative.

But isn't Rome today puny and weak? Certainly not, but granted, it doesn't rule the world like it once did and will do again. The angel hits on that point

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest WAS, and IS NOT; and SHALL ASCEND out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

Was, isn't, will be, will never again be.

Further comparison with Daniel will settle it in your minds. I will not here enter into history but that would be a fruitful study to carry. Rome the city, and Rome alone fits the bill.

Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, never Babylon.

Having read Dave Hunt's "A woman rides the beast" I visited the Vatican's website. You will be surprised to know that the Vatican believes that the Babylon of Revelation 17 could only be either Rome (you read right) or Jerusalem. Guess who it picks...

 

I agree, Hope of Glory. If even 10% of Americans are born again (and I've read surveys that were much higher), a huge blow will be dealt to the States by their disappearance.

 

You think the USA is bad? As a candidate for Babylon it doesn't compare.

Japan: twice the abortion per capita (with no public opposition), violence and sex are endemic in the schools, no law until recently against child pornography or prostitution, idolatry in almost every home and idolatrous temples in every section of the city, public drunkenness not a crime (95% of the population are drinkers), laws against spousal abuse or child abuse either non-existent or not enforced...shall I go on?

 

There are only two places in Revelation where I can see the United States fitting in. The first is chapter 18 that LadyEagle already quoted for us. Specifically verses 11 and 15-16 no country on earth consumes goods like the US. It would be quite a blow to the economies built on the US market.

The other place where I see a possibility of the United States entering into Revelation is in chapter 12

The United States is symbolized by an eagle. Most people agree that the woman persecuted here is the nation of Israel. Could this be the United States that comes to Israel’s aid? I don’t know of course and I plan on being already raptured. But I sure like that better than us being Babylon.

Of course who says the United States is in there at all. A lot of world powers have risen and fallen since the Bible was completed.

 

Not arguing since I believe that eschatology is bad thing to argue about. The Pharisees argued about prophecy and thought they had it pinned down... and their preconceptions caused them to completely miss the messiah.

However, the Romans were also symbolized by the eagle. Maybe someone else remembers but didn't one of the Asia minor kingdoms honor the eagle? Wouldn't it be strange if the end result of the Iraq invasion was this Israel saving eagle?

That is my take on it. If we are right about the end times... I think the US as a superpower would interfere with some of the things that probably need to happen.

For one, I can easily see the world divided into 4 major camps without the US. The north dominated by Russia, the east dominated by China-India, the west- EU, and the south- Islam.

 

Eleazar the Ahohite
Cities build on 7 hills are surprisingly common, I live in one that was around when John's apocalypse was written and it's neither Rome nor Jerusalem.
I'm not saying you are wrong in your assesment, I am however saying that limited information can lead to the wrong conclusion.


"I visited the Vatican's website. You will be surprised to know that the Vatican believes that the Babylon of Revelation 17 could only be either Rome (you read right) or Jerusalem. Guess who it picks... "
"
The RCC is Amillenialist, so presumably they read the Apocalypse as having happened in the first century.

 

Just out of curiousity, how many boroughs ("hills") are there in NYC?

 

A little food for thought.

Not saying that America is Babylon, but the description of Japan as "idolatry in almost every home " makes me think that we miss how prevalent idolatry is in the good old USA.

The difference is our idol is money rather than a shrine or statue, but that does not make it any less of an idol.

Look at how prevalent pure greed has become in our culture. Greed is pure idolatry. Money outweighs all other considerations.

Babylon is quite possibly the world. How many continents are there, after all. The world is a harlot and by far the majority of the people are taken with the merchandise of it.

Remember that friendship with the world is enmity with God.

 

Sorry, Dave, I don't buy it. You have obviously never actually seen children praying to a "jizo" (child Buddha), a Shinto priest praying to the spirits at a house dedication, or hundreds of people worshipping at a Shinto shrine on New Year's Eve. That's true idolatry, not just the lust for money.

 

Idols come in many forms and Americans are obsessed with theirs.

 

The Five are;
1-Manhattan
2-The Bronx
3-Brooklyn (where I lived for a while)
4-Queens (where I now live)
5-Staten Island (least populated, and most desirous to be annexed by New Jersey)
This village needs more missionaries, but you might hafta learn a new language!

 

Uh, oh, Lady Eagle, you mean we missionaries had better not have our Super Bowl Party this year?!?

 

Sorry, Scott J, I know this preaches well in American pulpits, but I find no Biblical basis for it. I'd be happy to have a friendly debate on the matter if someone wants to start a thread so we don't hijack this one.

 

Okay, LadyEagle, I'm not anymore.

I guess I should be the one to start an thread on idolatry. I'll start in in the Theology and Bible Study forum.

I can only start it, though, I can't contribute right now. It is morning here in Japan and I have to get to work.

 

Is the US Babylon? Newp!

The USA has more Jews than any other nation, including Israel, and has shown more kindness to them than any other nation.

The USA was founded by mostly Christians.

Plainly, God's hand of blessing has been more heavy upon the USA than any other nation ever, including Old Israel.

Sure, there's plenty of evil and decadence,(Name one nation that's NOT reeking of it) but the USA has more true preachers & pastors, more churches, and more professing Christians than the resta the world together.

 

People are forgetting how pagan and New Age Europe has become. The headquarters for modern Witchcraft is the U.K., and missionaries from France have told me that France is flooded with psychics, astrologers, and a lot of New Age stuff. This is true for Italy as well, and I think, Germany.

Regular church attendance in some of these countries is something like 2%.