Is the Wages of Sin Death or Eternal Death?

[MichaelBoryAlis]

Romans 6:23 states "the wages of sin is death . . ".
Many believe the wages of sin is Eternal Death - if that is true, did Jesus pay the price for sin?

Asking for a friend.

 

[canadyjd]

Romans 6:23 states "the wages of sin is death . . ".
Many believe the wages of sin is Eternal Death - if that is true, did Jesus pay the price for sin?

Asking for a friend.

Never heard it described as “eternal death” before. Sounds like annihilationism. So no, scripture says death not eternal death.

peace to you

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

Never heard it described as “eternal death” before. Sounds like annihilationism. So no, scripture says death not eternal death.

peace to you

Right, when framed with Romans 6:23 it sounds like an Abomination of the Word.
However, many believe in Eternal Death because of mistranslations like Matthew 25:46 of Kolasin Aionion, which was translated "Eternal Punishment", when it should be "The Correction of the Ages".

 

[Alan Gross]

Romans 6:23 states "the wages of sin is death . . ".
Many believe the wages of sin is Eternal Death - if that is true, did Jesus pay the price for sin?

Asking for a friend.

The First Death is Spiritual Death.

All human beings have suffered this First Death.

This Death of our Spirit, Toward God, does result in Physical Death.

There would be no Physical Death without Separation from God, which our Dead Spirit accomplishes.

Our Dead Spirit, as a result of The First Death, CAN NOT & DOES NOT "RELATE to GOD", Who IS SPIRIT.

...

The First Resurrection is the Birth from Above, in the lost Spiritually Dead soul, that Jesus Brings the sinner FROM Spiritually Dead Death to ETERNAL LIFE with God's Spirit.

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them,

...

Which brings us to The Second Death.

This would be losing Physical Life, WITHOUT JESUS,
and Entering into an Eternity of Spiritual Death, yes.

The Second Death is what it is called.

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

The First Death is Spiritual Death.

All human beings have suffered this First Death.

This Death of our Spirit, Toward God, does result in Physical Death.

There would be no Physical Death without Separation from God, which our Dead Spirit accomplishes.

Our Dead Spirit, as a result of The First Death, CAN NOT & DOES NOT "RELATE to GOD", Who IS SPIRIT.

...

The First Resurrection is the Birth from Above, in the lost Spiritually Dead soul, that Jesus Brings the sinner FROM Spiritually Dead Death to ETERNAL LIFE with God's Spirit.

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over them,

...

Which brings us to The Second Death.

This would be losing Physical Life, WITHOUT JESUS,
and Entering into an Eternity of Spiritual Death, yes.

The Second Death is what it is called.

So in reference to Rev 20:14 "Death and Hades (Hell) shall be cast into the Lake of Fire:This is the Second Death"

Are you saying this Spiritual Death will be burned up in literal Fire or Spiritual Fire?

 

[Alan Gross]

So in reference to Rev 20:14 "Death and Hades (Hell) shall be cast into the Lake of Fire:This is the Second Death"

Are you saying this Spiritual Death will be burned up in literal Fire or Spiritual Fire?

What the second death is called is "The Second Death".

If an individual is unforgiven of The First Death, as it applies to them, and they experience Death in The Eternal Lake of Fire, that is their second Death, and, also, The Second Death.

First death is Spiritual.

The second Death is the individual's Physical Death.

It is Consummated with their individual soul and body cast into The Lake of Fire.

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

What the second death is called is "The Second Death".

If an individual is unforgiven of The First Death, as it applies to them, and they experience Death in The Eternal Lake of Fire, that is their second Death, and, also, The Second Death.

First death is Spiritual.

The second Death is the individual's Physical Death.

It is Consummated with their individual soul and body cast into The Lake of Fire.

What happens when "there shall be no more death, and Jesus makes all things new" - Rev 21:4-5? If there is No More Death, how can there be a Second Death? Since the First Death is burned up in the spiritual lake of fire?

 

[Scarlett O.]

Romans 6:23 states "the wages of sin is death . . ".
Many believe the wages of sin is Eternal Death - if that is true, did Jesus pay the price for sin?

Asking for a friend.

Many?? I've been teaching the Bible to various groups for decades and have never heard the first person say that the wages of sin is eternal death.

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

Many?? I've been teaching the Bible to various groups for decades and have never heard the first person say that the wages of sin is eternal death.

Anyone who believes in 'Eternal Damnation' must believe the wages of sin is 'Eternal Death' - why else would they assert God is going to torment them for Eternity? Is not sin the issue?

So they believe Jesus paid for the sins of the world through his death, but any non-christian must pay for their sin for eternity. Interesting but not Inner Resting.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Anyone who believes in 'Eternal Damnation' must believe the wages of sin is 'Eternal Death' - why else would they assert God is going to torment them for Eternity? Is not sin the issue?

My father, a Christian, died. I am going to die one day. You are going to die one day. Why? Sin.

The wages of sin is death. But the Christian will live forever with Christ. This verse has nothing to do with where you spend eternity but WHY we die in the first place.

Tread carefully here.

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

My father, a Christian, died. I am going to die one day. You are going to die one day. Why? Sin.

The wages of sin is death. But the Christian will live forever with Christ. This verse has nothing to do with where you spend eternity but WHY we die in the first place.

Tread carefully here.

Tread carefully?
You mean don't ask intelligent questions or broach certain scriptures?
You will die if you live after the flesh -
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (In other words, you won't die - imagine that!)

 

[Alan Gross]

Tread carefully?
You mean don't ask intelligent questions or broach certain scriptures?
You will die if you live after the flesh -
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The wordings can be perceived that way, but the Original Teaching of what they actually do say is what you want.

Remember you are reasoning with a mind whose 'brain' has been affected by the curse of the Fall.

if you live according to the flesh (not a crucified life)
because you have not put to death the deeds of the body, (not a crucified life)

you will live,( Spiritually influenced Life with the deeds of the body in crucified life)
if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, ( a crucified life)


...

These thoughts have to do with 'how to live (Spiritually) and not die prematurely'.

Nothing to do with Eternal Life, or how it is obtained.

 

[Alan Gross]

What happens when "there shall be no more death, and Jesus makes all things new" - Rev 21:4-5? If there is No More Death, how can there be a Second Death? Since the First Death is burned up in the spiritual lake of fire?

There is NO DEATH for The Saved, Redeemed, Saints of God.

Jesus Will Make a New Heaven and a New Earth for Saved, Redeemed, Saints of God, AND God the Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit.

What happens when "there shall be no more death, and Jesus makes all things new" - Rev 21:4-5?

reference: The Return of Christ, Part 4

 

[Alan Gross]

What happens when "there shall be no more death, and Jesus makes all things new" - Rev 21:4-5? If there is No More Death, how can there be a Second Death? Since the First Death is burned up in the spiritual lake of fire?

If there is No More Death, how can there be a Second Death? Since the First Death is burned up in the spiritual lake of fire?

There is No More Death for the Redeemed Saints.

Still, there is/was a First Death = FOR THE UNSAVED,
as well as, The Second Death,

when The Unsaved Die WITHOUT JESUS
= The Second (lost person's) Death.

...
reference: The Return of Christ, Part 4

 

[Scarlett O.]

Tread carefully?
You mean don't ask intelligent questions or broach certain scriptures?
You will die if you live after the flesh -
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (In other words, you won't die - imagine that!)

~sigh~
I do not mean to not ask questions - intelligent or otherwise.

I just mean to tread carefully. Your statement that we will not die is unbiblical.

We WILL ALL die. Some will go to hell. Some will be with Christ.

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

The wordings can be perceived that way, but the Original Teaching of what they actually do say is what you want.

Remember you are reasoning with a mind whose 'brain' has been affected by the curse of the Fall.

if you live according to the flesh (not a crucified life)
because you have not put to death the deeds of the body, (not a crucified life)

you will live,( Spiritually influenced Life with the deeds of the body in crucified life)
if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, ( a crucified life)


...

These thoughts have to do with 'how to live (Spiritually) and not die prematurely'.

Nothing to do with Eternal Life, or how it is obtained.

Always fun to watch how people rationalize away the clear truth.

~sigh~
I do not mean to not ask questions - intelligent or otherwise.

I just mean to tread carefully. Your statement that we will not die is unbiblical.

We WILL ALL die. Some will go to hell. Some will be with Christ.

So no "be transfigured by the renewing of the mind" (Romans 12:1-2) for you. Got it.

You prefer to be "found naked" and not "clothed upon":
II Cor 5
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Jesus said, "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" -
Tell me, is there any death in your concept of 'Heaven'?

 

[MichaelBoryAlis]

The wordings can be perceived that way, but the Original Teaching of what they actually do say is what you want.

Remember you are reasoning with a mind whose 'brain' has been affected by the curse of the Fall.

if you live according to the flesh (not a crucified life)
because you have not put to death the deeds of the body, (not a crucified life)

you will live,( Spiritually influenced Life with the deeds of the body in crucified life)
if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, ( a crucified life)


...

These thoughts have to do with 'how to live (Spiritually) and not die prematurely'.

Nothing to do with Eternal Life, or how it is obtained.

Amazing to see how people muddy up clear scriptures. Here are some more for you -
So no "be transfigured by the renewing of the mind" (Romans 12:1-2) for you. Got it.

You prefer to be "found naked" and not "clothed upon":
II Cor 5
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Jesus said, "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" -
Tell me, is there any death in your concept of 'Heaven'?

 

[Alan Gross]

Always fun to watch how people rationalize away the clear truth.


So no "be transfigured by the renewing of the mind" (Romans 12:1-2) for you. Got it.

You prefer to be "found naked" and not "clothed upon":
II Cor 5
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.


Jesus said, "Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven" -
Tell me, is there any death in your concept of 'Heaven'?

There is The First Death = The Fall of Adam
affecting his entire number of offspring, The Human Race.

There is The New Birth, Delivering The victim of The First Death, from Spiritual Death to Eternal Life.

There is The Second Death = when a lost soul dies, physically.

...

What is the publication that ingratiates an answer to a 'death' related to 'Heaven' question?

What are they saying, why are you asking about it?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 6:23 states "the wages of sin is death . . ".
Many believe the wages of sin is Eternal Death - if that is true, did Jesus pay the price for sin?

Asking for a friend.

the "death" here spoken of is the second or final death, which is the Lake of Fire, not simply separation from God spiritually, which of course it is. This Second Death is indeed "eternal", but it is a conscious death, in that those who end up here, will be fully aware of what is going on, and sadly, suffering eternal punishment. There is no annihilationism taught anywhere in the Bible, nor is the final death something that may "end" at some time.

Your theology is not Biblical in what you post here and on your other threads. There seems to be some hidden motive in how to ask things? Here in the UK we have "Baptists", who are very Liberal in their theology, and not Biblical.

 

[SavedByGrace]

did Jesus pay the price for sin?

why would you think otherwise? The Bible very clearly says that Jesus did die for all sinners, as John 3:16 says. Your reasoning and the questions that you ask, make me wonder what you are on this forum for, and what "Baptist", you are?