Is there a bible translation that you will not recommend?

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Askjo:

Please look at a word, "begotten" on John 3:16. The KJV has it, but moderm versions do not have it.

NASU95 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

NIV "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, {[16] Or his only begotten Son}that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

ASV "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life."

YLT "for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during."

So where's the problem? Did I miss something?

 

[Phillip]

No gb, good post. Another typical confusion tactic used by the KJVO.

I noticed in a thread that Dr. Bob said he was currently reading through the ESV. I couldn't find it again due to the number of responses. I am wondering, if you see this, Dr. Bob, if you would tell me about where you are in the ESV (assuming you are reading from front to back) or the books you have read? ...and what do you think of it so far?

Personally, I like it. A little more literal than some of the other translations.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Can't edit above post due to the program glitch mentioned in another thread. The last paragraph is Michelle's which I am responding to in the paragraph just above it.

I had the same thing happen. It helped when I closed my browser and brought up BB again.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Phillip:
Can't edit above post due to the program glitch mentioned in another thread. The last paragraph is Michelle's which I am responding to in the paragraph just above it.

I had the same thing happen. It helped when I closed my browser and brought up BB again. </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks,

gb, I will try that next time. It is probably a glitch in the browser or the Windows operating system rather than the server.

 

[natters]

Askjo said "Please look up other verses where the blood was omitted."

I said "I tried, and found none. Please provide them."

Askjo said "I do not buy your game."

It is not a game. I would like to know of any instances where this has happened.

 

[michelle]

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How does begotten denote diety and more than unique or one and only does?
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Here is a link that explains "why", to your question:


http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/monogenes.htm

http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/begotten_son.htm

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/Jn1-18.html


Here is more:

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-Kittel.htm

http://www.bibleword.org/monogenes.shtml


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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This is a good question for Michelle. If the KJV is a perfect translation "word for word" of the originals, why were words added to clarify. In other words, the ones in italics that they admit are "added"?
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Akjo answered this already, and very well I might add. Did you miss it:


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quote:
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But, KJV does added words unto it, not actual what Greek saying, it called, 'Italics'.
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Askjo quoted:

Well, you and I use ASL, right? Is ASL English? No! When deaf people write with ASL, not English, a hearing person helps Deaf person to correct English grammar.

ASL:

blue car home.

English with "Italics":

My blue car is at home.

That is how the KJV translators translated from the Hebrew and Greek language to English language. Greek is not English. Hebrew is not English.

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Amen!!! Askjo. Very well put.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Phillip]

Here is a quote from lamblion.net referenced above. It is good to know where people stand before blindly following their opinions:

"This chart is not even close to being complete. There are thousands of corruptions in modern bible versions. The following is only a sampling of the thousands of triflings with God's Word by modern bibles and modern textual critics.
The word(s) in bold in the AV column are compared to the NIV (New International Version), NASB (New American Standard), & NWT (New World Translation - Jehovah's Witnesses) respectively. The term "OMITTED" applies to the words in bold. The term "FOOTNOTE" means that the verse is footnoted or cast as doubtful. Any other word is a substitution.
Many will view these changes as not all that significant. Others will view these changes as somewhat significant, but not worth contending over. A few - a very few, comparatively speaking - will view these changes as leaven, and will find purchase in the truth that "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Fewer still will view the following changes as nothing less than a full-scale assault by modern bibles and modern textual critics against the Son of God and His glorious Person."

NOTE: This is not breaking fair-copyright law, this is simply the introduction to a chart provided on the website, the chart is not shown here, only the introduction.

 

[Phillip]

Michelle, why won't you answer why you made the statement accusing us of calling you a KJVO?

Why do you NOT claim to be a KJVO?

Are you going to ignore this one too, since you ignored the last five times I have asked this?

 

[natters]

In the book "The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation" (readable online at http://www.gospelcom.net/ibs/niv/mct/index.php ), the NIV translators devote chapter 11 to explaining why they used "one and only" instead of "begotten". It is a very interesting read, and they make many good points.

I believe both readings are translationally correct and both can be properly interpreted. However, I personally prefer "begotten".

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by michelle:
Well, you and I use ASL, right? Is ASL English? No! When deaf people write with ASL, not English, a hearing person helps Deaf person to correct English grammar.

ASL:

blue car home.

English with "Italics":

My blue car is at home.

That is how the KJV translators translated from the Hebrew and Greek language to English language. Greek is not English. Hebrew is not English.

So, then words had to be added to clarify it in English, therefore it is not perfectly word-for-word of the original Hebrew and Greek.

 

[natters]

About italics, Askjo's explanation is true very often, but not always - there are some italics in the KJV that were added for other reasons and not simply because of syntactical differences between Hebrew/Greek and English. Also, sometimes italics have changed between editions of the KJV, in both directions.

 

[michelle]

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So, then words had to be added to clarify it in English, therefore it is not perfectly word-for-word of the original Hebrew and Greek.
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Given grammatical requirements from one language to another, it has been added to in order to make sense, but continues to be a word for word even though those are necessary. Askjo explained this quite well. They are the words of God from those languages perfectly and unaltered in our own language.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by michelle:

Given grammatical requirements from one language to another, it has been added to in order to make sense, ... They are the words of God from those languages perfectly and unaltered in our own language.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[Phillip]

Let me also make a point regarding the ASL comparison. ASL is very much like court-room stenography. They are both "modified" ENGLISH used to transmit messages in a shorter fashion. When ASL cannot be used, then the words are spelled out by the translator.

Greek, on the other hand, is not a shorted language for purposes of higher speed transmission. In fact, Greek has tenses and words that we cannot even translate accurately, such as the two meanings that we translate into "love".

This type of comparison is illegitimite for the purposes of explaining translational requirements between Greek and English.

With Greek you have MORE words than can be translated, not a scaled down version of the English language, which is all ASL is (for the purposes of faster transmission).

If you were trying to demonstrate a compression algorithm, such as MP3 for music, then the comparison would be acceptable.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Philip,

You are CORRECT!!

You understand ASL well. I often use ASL lot. Even, Askjo uses ASL too. He knows ASL, same as I know ASL.

Askjo, recently ago, I heard Gallaudet University staffs consider, ASL is not a language. But, in case, many deaf people consider ASL IS a language. To me, yes, ASL is a language. But, I notice ASL cut into much shorter, the way we talking more faster, not follow the excatly sentence or grammar. There is another sign language called, SEE- Sign Exactly English- oh boy, that sign must demand to sign with EVERY words in the correct sentence follow English. ASL is not. ASL cut into shorter, the way we talk faster.

Same as I discussed on Italic. KJV added words with italics, but, not these are find in Greek. Are the italic words consider actually talk come from Christ's voice or actual what Apostle Paul's own pen wrote?

Are italics added wrong according to Rev. 22:18?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Phillip]

That is interesting DeafPosttrib. We have a close family friend who uses ASL and my wife can talk with her reasonably well. I can at least get her to understand (like someone who knows how to ask for the bathroom in Spanish haha).

She moves too fast for me to keep up with her though.

It is my understanding that there are even some different dialects or styles of ASL, have you found this to be true?

Sorry, off track, but it does relate to translation.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Askjo,

I understand what your point of the between ASL & English about blue car.

I think, what's in your mind about Engsligh of KJV, as it uses Italics, these are added, not what Greek & Hebrews, the reason they added them, because of verbs.

I think, it is more than that. Not just because of verbs reason. Also, KJV translators added WORDS like as adj, noun, etc.

There are many italics in KJV. I am think of show you a good example of verse in KJV Italic, it is not just for verbs only.

I think 1 Cor. 14:33 is a good example of italic word.

KJV 1 Cor. 14:33 says, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

The words of 'the author' is not find in Greek.

KJV translators added it to verse, not because of verbs, I think the reason, they added it, so, to show us more clarify or clear what the verse is talking about. In other word, I think KJV translators added 'the author' unto verse 33, because in Greek says, "For God is not of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints". I think KJV translators would saying, probably, the people seem not understand what verse 33 talking about - "For God is of confusion", in their mind, I guess, they would saying "What is the point that, God is not confusion of what???" So, I believe they just added, God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I think the reason KJV translators added it unto verse 33, to explain it more clarify what the verse talking about.

So, my point is, does Apostle Paul was actually saying God is not THE AUTHOR of confusion? No, Paul does not saying. Of course, I am no doubt, Apostle Paul knew God is not author, I think Paul told us, about women in the church, they are not allow to speak, keep them silence, also, not let church into division. That why Paul tells us God is NOT OF confusion. God does not cause church into confusion, but God gives us peace.

Understand my point?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Philip,

You make a good point on Greek relates with Italics!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!