Is there a difference...

Take a linguistics class...in Ye Olde English.

johnp.

 

Hi RC;
Your definition comes from a modern dictionary called strongs.

I don't care what it meant in the 15th Century this wasn't written in the 15th century. it was written before Christ.
At the time it was written it only had one meaning and that was it's root meaning. It's root meaning was conception. It has to do with thinking of a concept to frame a thought in other words. If it was an intent then it would have been a determination of His heart.

You can't define an Acient language with modern meanings because it destroys the purity of language. If you were such a great linguistics expert you would know that.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

You only presume that I worship the will of man! You have failed to understand me because your traditional beliefs do not accomodate difference of opinion!

 

My traditional beliefs.... HA ! I used to be a Calvary Chapel assisting pastor ! They are the champions of YOUR belief... Do you think ANYTHING you say is new? Your lurking in the darkness because you don't see that your beliefs are historically heretical!

 

That's what is so funny about it ILL. You don't know Hebrew. If you don't know it, how do you know that the translation is correct? You have absolutely no rerferance ! If you know Hebrew you can understand the translation. And NO I didn't get that from the Strong's... Looking up words out of it's context in the strongs is very amaturish. I'm sure that's your buddy since you brought it up but... Strong's is very good reference and one of the best for Greek ... but ... the actual Hebrew says it is the "will of the heart", or the "intention" of the heart. MANY good translations,better than KJV, like ESV has it "intentions"...

YOU can't say what that word is by your standards but I'll rely on the teachers and scholars that God has given us... I'll use the Aramaic Targumim and Whitikers BDB lexicon for the passage... I have MUCH to back up what I say, you have NOTHING.

 

Hi RC;

I've been Bible Baptist all my life. Making such a complete heritical switch makes you appear to waver in your beliefs. Let's see you were no doubt raised in the Judean Faith then switched to Christianity then with in Christianity switched again to Calvinism. Are you having trouble making up your mind? The thing that puzzels me most is that I know Jews believe they have a choice they've certainly exercised it enough.
So how did someone who knows better than fatalism become a fatalist?.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hi RC;
According to bakers interlinear from Hebrew to English word for word Intent or imagination doesn't even exist in the hebrew text for Genesis
8:21
In the Hebrew text all it says is that "the heart of man is evil from his youth" It does not say his thoughts are evil. Or that the intents of his thoughts are evil. With such a great understanding of Hebrew and Aramaic maybe you'd like to explain that oh great intelligent one. Just how you read the Torah and found that the word "intent" was is in there. Now of course your going to deny the Bakers interlinear is correct.
Your not the only one with a computer and access to the internet here my friend. Neat thing about the internet there is more information on it than any library in the world. All one has to be able to do is read and type a little. There are sites that will even interpret different languages for you.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

I see that my beliefs are historically consistant with scripture!

 

Actually, I was Christian my whole life, my parents wanted me to be educated and experienced in the knowledge of Judaism though... And if one changes his mind it doesn't make him a person "having trouble" making ones mind but is one that is wise enough to be educated on both sides and humble enough to admit that he was wrong.

And on your little "studious" journey, how many lexicons did you look into? Just the Bakers? Is that the only one out there in your "library of the world?" ... You can save alot of time by getting Bibleworks software and get around 10 O.T. lexicons at your fingertips....And all of those plus many more .. even Hendrickson's literal is "NotI will curse the ground for the sake of man, because the thought heart of man's is evil from his youth.


Wes... Yes... consistantly wrong with scripture that's why it is heretical from the council of Orange, and Dort to today.

 

Well guess what? You have not posted anything that would persuade me to doubt my faith in God. Until you do, you can stuff your councils!

 

Wes,
I'm not trying to persuade you... But please... look at your answers... "Stuff your councils"? ... God has from Peter, Paul, John, Polycarp, Ignatius, Clement, given us Faithful teachers. Do you know why councils and creeds were even formed? ... Because the wolves in sheeps clothing came in a taught heresy! Want to know what the true beliefs of the "Apostles students" believed? The creeds and councils that said what those teachings were!!! And those judged Arminianism as NOT what the apostles taught !

 

rc,
I am not Arminian! Don't make that mistake again!

I am not Calvinist Either.

I am Christian!

 

RC;
I believe you base your whole doctrine on the Septuagint a proven corrupt text. You were once on a good path at Calvary Chapel. Not perfect I'll admit but there is no perfect doctrine among men. They will never be until the return of Christ. No one is 100% right because we are only men. To make a complete about face in Christianity is wavering. It shows you listen to men. God said to place your confidence in Him not in men.
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Psa 40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
Jer 17:6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
Jer 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
Jer 17:8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

If only once maybe not but twice sets up a pattern. Then you come here and act as though you're the only one right.
Why would anyone believe someone who doesn't even agree with himself?.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

I agree with Paul. And no Calvary Chapel's theology is horrible. Wes, you are a die hard Arminian. You guys are such hypocrites... Your the ones leaning on man's understanding not I ! The chuch has been calling your theology heretical for 1700 years!! NEVER has Paulinian TULIP ever been even questioned... Whether you like it or not your theology started from MAN 300 years after Christ long after the church believed in TULIP!! And the weak arguement of "I just got my understanding from the H.S. and the Bible" isn't gonna fly you Pelagians !!!

 

Oh RC, RC;

I don't know about Wes but I'm just about to tear up here,,,,,,,,, With Laughter

 

And you are die hard DEAD wrong!

 

Backs up against the wall? ... History and scripture's on my side and think you can wiesel out of the conversation with a laugh? Why did the church fathers call your beliefs heretical? .. The men that heard teachings from the mouth of John himself! You know, the one who wrote John 6,8,10,17 ? ... hmmm

 

NOPE, just not fallin' for your stuff!

 

Is it possible--

To be a TULIP Baptist without being a Calvinist?

The doctrines of grace pre-date Calvin and others by about 1500 years.

Jean Chauvin(Calvin) and Jacobus Arminius(Father of Arminianism) were contemporary--16th century, according my web-search. They were both defrocked Roman priests.

Jesus saves. He tells us about salvation through the Apostle Paul--re: Book of Romans, Ephesians, etc.

Following men leads one into a ditch.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Hi Brother James;

I don't think so the tulip was invented by John Calvin's successors. Can't remember the guy's name I think it was Beza or something, but it was due to the fact that Jacobus Arminius had changed his mind about Calvinism and took about half of the students in Calvin's seminary over to his side. Seems the Calvinist were outraged and set up Jacobus in a type of mock trial called the synod of Dort. They were heavily on the side of the Calvinist. The tulip was the Calvinist answers to the Arminians doctrine. There are only five pedals to the tulip now but originally there were seven. They use to believe in infant Baptism, and inherited election as well.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike