Is there a double standard in Baptist Marriages ?

[4boys4joys]

I would like to read some opinions from members of this board. Sometimes I see a heavier weight or emphasis put on the responsibility of the wife to follow scripture than the husband. This is not a rant, just an honest observation. For every 4 books you see written about wives you may see 1 written to men. When a woman is not being submissive to her husband it is looked down upon greatly. When a man does not lead his family according to scripture the wife is told to just pray and stick it out. Sin in marriage is sin regardless of who is commiting that sin. Are Baptist men being held accountable for the place they have in marriage. The healthiest marriages are God fed and husband led. Any thoughts ...

 

[charles_creech78]

I thank that is why there is alot of devorce in marrage. They don't put God first. They did not put him first when they said I do. I believe that alot of men have alot to do spiritualy in the home of his family. He needs to tell his family that God comes first. I have told my wife before that God comes first before her and she understands that. I have told her that I would understand like wise if she felt that way. When things get bad I have told her to just trust in the lord. And God always gets us through that bad part. She don't pray to God like me and my little girls do. But I always pray that God will inlighten her that she is a sinner. Me and her don't beleive in devorce or remarrage. We believe God married us and it was till we die. From the good to the bad we know God married us and we trust he will lead this marrage till we die. And to my family that God has given me. Let the lord always lead us and guide us for with out him I can do nothing. For he is my all and all. Husbands love your wife as Christ loved the church and died for it. Give them your love as ye receaved from the father all the days of your life. Be good to them and thank God for them and they will be good to you. Teach them the word of God in his love and truth because they knew who you was before you found God and they see the change in you. And always everyday give God the glory for everthing in your life. amen

 

[James_Newman]

I would like to read some opinions from members of this board. Sometimes I see a heavier weight or emphasis put on the responsibility of the wife to follow scripture than the husband. This is not a rant, just an honest observation. For every 4 books you see written about wives you may see 1 written to men. When a woman is not being submissive to her husband it is looked down upon greatly. When a man does not lead his family according to scripture the wife is told to just pray and stick it out. Sin in marriage is sin regardless of who is commiting that sin. Are Baptist men being held accountable for the place they have in marriage. The healthiest marriages are God fed and husband led. Any thoughts ...

In my observation, it seems that often men are more willing to lead than women are willing to be led. While this doesn't excuse men from their responsibility, there is an imbalance in todays society toward women not being under the authority of a husband.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Double standard

In Eph 5, you will notice that before Paul states for the woman to submit to her husband, he likewise commands for them to submit to one another.

That is an often untaught and overlooked text and fact.

Bartimaeus

 

[Bro. Williams]

I would like to read some opinions from members of this board. Sometimes I see a heavier weight or emphasis put on the responsibility of the wife to follow scripture than the husband. This is not a rant, just an honest observation. For every 4 books you see written about wives you may see 1 written to men. When a woman is not being submissive to her husband it is looked down upon greatly. When a man does not lead his family according to scripture the wife is told to just pray and stick it out. Sin in marriage is sin regardless of who is commiting that sin. Are Baptist men being held accountable for the place they have in marriage. The healthiest marriages are God fed and husband led. Any thoughts ...

It is mostly men writing the books. :thumbs:

 

[4boys4joys]

Heart of my question.

In my observation, it seems that often men are more willing to lead than women are willing to be led. While this doesn't excuse men from their responsibility, there is an imbalance in todays society toward women not being under the authority of a husband.

Thank you for your reply. I know women who are on either side and on the fence of this as far as submission in marriage. My question was more about is more emphasis placed on the wives role in Christian marriage than that of the husaband. Maybe you are saying that more women do not submit than men who do not lead ? Do you think that could be a lack of emphasis on this subject or just a sad reality that wives are missing out.

 

[StefanM]

I think this is a major problem for men. While there is a societal aversion to a wife's submission, I believe that if men truly loved their wives as Christ loved the church, women would find submission much more rewarding.

 

[James_Newman]

Thank you for your reply. I know women who are on either side and on the fence of this as far as submission in marriage. My question was more about is more emphasis placed on the wives role in Christian marriage than that of the husaband. Maybe you are saying that more women do not submit than men who do not lead ? Do you think that could be a lack of emphasis on this subject or just a sad reality that wives are missing out.

I think what I meant to say was that in today's society, men trying to lead their wives is looked down upon and if a man tries to assert his authority, the woman has the court system to use as a club against her husband. The law does not uphold the mans authority in his own home, rather it will allow his wife to take his children from him and destroy his life. So it is understandable if men are a little timid when it comes to leading the home. Women need to be taught that it is right and proper for their husbands to lead them and that it is a beautiful picture of mans submission before God when she submits to her husband. But as I said, the risk doesn't alleviate the responsibility of the man to step up and lead his home.

 

[Scarlett O.]

This is a good question and deserves some reflection.

From my perspective, it seems easier to talk about submissive women because we have defined what that means in very specific terms. I believe that we have defined it incorrectly and unbiblically, but we have, as a Christian body of believers, defined it to the nth degree.

People will say that it does not involve subordination, but our superficial definition of it does. The Baptist Faith and Message defines it as managing the home and rearing the children. Well.....that's not what the bible says that submission is. That's is just PART of the make-up of a Godly wife, but putting food on the table, changing diapers, and doing all of the grunt work isn't what biblical submission is about.

Many Christian people define a submissive woman as one who cannot leave her home and must do all of the manual labor and of the dirty work and who cannot disagree with her husband nor contradict him and must obey his every command and never find fault with him or else she is in a state of sin and "worldliness" and neglect of her family.

With that definition, there is no wonder that the subject is bantered about endlessly.

There are a host of people here at the BB that will disagree with that definition, but every time that the subject is brought up or a subject pertaining to women akin to submission, that is what the BB definition of submission boils down to.

That's why it's discussed to so much on the BB and every where else.

Now, the leadership role of a husband has a much more vague definition by Christians. The bible is crystal clear, but Christians aren't.

The Baptist Faith and Message basically says that he is responsible for putting the paycheck on the table and "protecting" everybody....whatever that means.

I find it very ironic that the same Christians who gripe and bemoan of Godly husbands not leading their families and griping and bemoaning about wives "getting in the way" are the same ones who cannot and do not give a clear definition of what leading means.....they just assume that word means that he is the "boss" of the family and 'nuff said.

How can there be a meaningful discussion of Godly leadership when leadership is not defined in any other capacity other than "controller".

I heartily believe in the what the bible teaches about a Godly marriage. A man who sacrifices himself daily for his wife's sake just as Christ sacrificed himself for the church. And a woman who denies herself daily for her husband's sake just as the church is asked to deny itself for Christ. Two people with unique talents and roles who share their lives, their bodies, their families, and their mutual submission to the LORD. He loves her more than his own body and does whatever it takes to make her life meaningful. She trusts him more than her own heart and does whatever it takes to make his life purposeful.

It has nothing to do with who washes the dishes and who balances the checkbook.

Unfortunately, my definition doesn't correlate with what the Baptist Faith and Message says nor what many people on the BB believe.

As I said, there's more discussion about the role of a submissive wife because we have defined her most incorrectly and we haven't really defined the leadership role of a husband at all.

 

[just-want-peace]

One of the most glaring problems, IMHO, is that satan has almost totally destroyed the family relationship.
He has conned a bunch of (mostly) women into screaming bloody murder at the mention of "SUBMISSION" without even knowing the meaning of the word OR the context.
Yes, it has been misused by those %%# men who claim it simply for the authority it denotes, but rather than getting the true meaning out, the feminists have denigrated the whole concept.
I agree with Scarlett:

He loves her more than his own body and does whatever it takes to make her life meaningful.

Although I don't think the feminist would even accept this as a prelude to the "dreaded" submission.

satan has done a masterful job in emasculating the image of the father, husband, brother, or any other male that does not yield to the feminist's demands of what a man should be. Witness the character of ALL fathers, husbands etc in modern commercials; they are depicted as nothing but bumbling oafs or a blob of beer-gut fat with the mentality of a 10 year old, or some such demeaning scenario. Any role of a male is childish, boorish, stupid or simply irrelavent in most ads, AND, from the little I've seen of them, most sit-coms.

Also the lack of responsibility that the Gloria Stienems of the world have instilled in the judicial system, in the name of freeing the female from her "submission" to men, has made the women bear a greater burden of the divorce culture.

Add to all this the convience of "after-the-fact" birth control, and the attendent problems that follow, and you have another burden added to the "emancipated" female.

Basically if folks would just read and follow the "MANFUCATURE'S HANDBOOK" for humans, most of these problems would be non-existant.

So satan has made a two prong main attack on the family, yes he has even made a three prong attack.
1 Destroy discipline in raising children (Dr. Spock)
2 Emancipate the female and make her envious of the fact that God designated MAN as the head of families
3 Assure that the man is emasculated as the female gets bolder.

As can be seen in society, his attacks have been very productive for his cause.

 

[canadyjd]

This is a good question and deserves some reflection.

From my perspective, it seems easier to talk about submissive women because we have defined what that means in very specific terms. I believe that we have defined it incorrectly and unbiblically, but we have, as a Christian body of believers, defined it to the nth degree.....



I heartily believe in the what the bible teaches about a Godly marriage. A man who sacrifices himself daily for his wife's sake just as Christ sacrificed himself for the church. And a woman who denies herself daily for her husband's sake just as the church is asked to deny itself for Christ. Two people with unique talents and roles who share their lives, their bodies, their families, and their mutual submission to the LORD. He loves her more than his own body and does whatever it takes to make her life meaningful. She trusts him more than her own heart and does whatever it takes to make his life purposeful.

Scarlett O: I am usually impressed with your thoughtful, insightful, and biblical responses.

This may be, I think, the most beautiful, concise definition of a biblical marriage that I have ever seen articulated. My hat is off to you, lady.:applause:

peace to youraying:

 

[Filmproducer]

....How can there be a meaningful discussion of Godly leadership when leadership is not defined in any other capacity other than "controller".

I heartily believe in the what the bible teaches about a Godly marriage. A man who sacrifices himself daily for his wife's sake just as Christ sacrificed himself for the church. And a woman who denies herself daily for her husband's sake just as the church is asked to deny itself for Christ. Two people with unique talents and roles who share their lives, their bodies, their families, and their mutual submission to the LORD. He loves her more than his own body and does whatever it takes to make her life meaningful. She trusts him more than her own heart and does whatever it takes to make his life purposeful.

It has nothing to do with who washes the dishes and who balances the checkbook.

Unfortunately, my definition doesn't correlate with what the Baptist Faith and Message says nor what many people on the BB believe.

As I said, there's more discussion about the role of a submissive wife because we have defined her most incorrectly and we haven't really defined the leadership role of a husband at all.

:applause: Excellent post! No need to say anything more. I agree that this is the best definition of a Christian marriage I have seen yet. Ever thought about writing a book on the subject Scarlett? :thumbs:

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Thank You

Scarlett...I as well wish to thank you for that beautiful definition of Marriage. I sent it on to my wife's email and to my Pastor as well. God Bless You Sister!!

In Christ,
Greg Perry Sr.

 

[4boys4joys]

Thank You

People will say that it does not involve subordination, but our superficial definition of it does. The Baptist Faith and Message defines it as managing the home and rearing the children. Well.....that's not what the bible says that submission is. That's is just PART of the make-up of a Godly wife, but putting food on the table, changing diapers, and doing all of the grunt work isn't what biblical submission is about.

Thank You Scarlett for answering this thread. Thank you for defining marriage.Our duties do not define submission. If that were true we could categorize alot more Christians as being submissive to God simply based on duty.If biblical submission in the case of a wife had to do with her duties then it would be in Proverbs 31 possibly. The scriptures about marriage always seem to be together. God leading the man and woman respectively.Sometimes I even see how that the greater weight and responsibility is on the husband. God says he should give his life the wife just has to follow.

I do not think any woman would turn away Christ like love if she is right with God and wants a Godly marriage.

The one thing I will say is this. Is it possible that if a wife does her duties with joy and submits to her husband that a husband could think he is leading the family biblically? Is it possible that if a wife does her household duties, but is not happy, is it possible that the husband may think she is not right with God or being submissive because she is not happy with her job or situation which is not really biblical submission.

Thank you Scarlett again. It truly helped me.

 

[Mr.M]

It is a woman's responsibility simply to carry out her responsibilities. When a woman decides to start evaluating whether someone, to which she is administratively subordinate, (or anyone for that matter who is administratively subordinate to another) is or is not fulfilling the responsibilities of their role you can bet one thing is for sure, she is no longer fulfilling hers by minding business that isn't hers.

 

[mcdirector]

I'm on the road to becoming an old woman and I can attest that there is a lot of wonderful truth in Scarlett's post. I have always felt cherished by my husband and in return I have always wanted to keep his home. We are so in-sync, it's hard to describe. We've had so many discussions here on the BB about the roles of husband and wife that I don't understand. I'm beginning think what I have is rare. I pray it's not, because it is what I want everyone to experience. There is no doubt my husband is head and I am his helpmate, but it has been a precious union. I have helped him and he has supported me in a multitude of ways.

 

[canadyjd]

It is a woman's responsibility simply to carry out her responsibilities. When a woman decides to start evaluating whether someone, to which she is administratively subordinate, (or anyone for that matter who is administratively subordinate to another) is or is not fulfilling the responsibilities of their role you can bet one thing is for sure, she is no longer fulfilling hers by minding business that isn't hers.

First, we are not talking about a business, it's a marriage. "Administratively subordinate" is an unbiblical discription of the wife's role in the family.

Second, Christians are certainly encouraged to be concerned if other Christians are not living as they should. That is the reason Jesus gave us the principle of church discipline.

How much more, then, should husbands and wives be concerned for each other, should one appear to stumbling in the responsibilities. They are "one flesh". If one stumbles, the other is immediately effected.

peace to youraying:

 

[annsni]

Scarlett - I also say a hearty "amen" to all you posted! Thanks for putting it so clearly and so beautifully into words.

 

[Mr.M]

First, we are not talking about a business, it's a marriage. "Administratively subordinate" is an unbiblical discription of the wife's role in the family.

Second, Christians are certainly encouraged to be concerned if other Christians are not living as they should. That is the reason Jesus gave us the principle of church discipline.

How much more, then, should husbands and wives be concerned for each other, should one appear to stumbling in the responsibilities. They are "one flesh". If one stumbles, the other is immediately effected.

peace to youraying:

Actually, a woman IS Administratively Subordinate and it is EXACTLY a Biblical Description. The woman is not personally subordinate, meaning her person is not subordinate but her ROLE...hence that is an ADMINISTRATIVE CONTEXT. Your belief that the word ADMINISTRATIVE refers to only a business context unfortunately leaves you unarmed in dealing with other contexts. My suggestion is you endeavor to enlighten yourself on the more broad use of the word.

Unfortunately you immediately depart from the context of marriage and enter into another context for the rest of your argument, hence an unwarranted point on your part and invalid for debate.

 

[canadyjd]

Actually, a woman IS Administratively Subordinate and it is EXACTLY a Biblical Description. The woman is not personally subordinate, meaning her person is not subordinate but her ROLE...hence that is an ADMINISTRATIVE CONTEXT. Your belief that the word ADMINISTRATIVE refers to only a business context unfortunately leaves you unarmed in dealing with other contexts. My suggestion is you endeavor to enlighten yourself on the more broad use of the word.

If I "enlighten" myself, will I start sounding as pompous and arrogant as you do?

I think I can find a better way to describe a wife than as an "administrative subordinate".

And yes, that is an "unbiblical" definition.

peace to youraying: