Is there anyone in Hell today?

It would be nice to find a quote saying that those "in paradise were set free" or "Saints were captive in paradise" or ...
</font>[/QUOTE]Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

The expression "captivity captive" is an expression referring to those saints in paradise that he went down and delivered from Paradise and led them right to the presence of God Himself in heaven. Thus there is now no two compartments of sheol: paradise and hell: but only one--Hell. All the saved: Old Testament and New, are now in Heaven. The unsaved go straight to Hell and will remain there awaiting their final sentence to be condemned once and forever in the lake of fire where:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

Bob Ryan,

The word asleep in the N.T. is an euphemism meaning that a Christian is at rest and at peace in the Lord.

At death we immediately go into the Presence of Jesus in Heaven [II Cor. 5:8 & Philippians 1:23]. There is no waiting for hundreds of years to see the Lord Jesus on His throne.

King David has not had to wait 3,005 plus years to see the Lord in Heaven. Remember Moses and Elijah came out of Heaven, briefly, at the time of the Transfiguration.

 

DHK, it is a pleasure to see such understanding from saints in our neighbor to the north.

Merry Christmas.

 

So then you also believe in soul sleep or "person sleep" as you apply the term "Sleep" to the "person" just as scripture does?

Glad to hear it.

Elijah never died - he was "Taken to heaven" by God - bodily.

Moses died but the book "The Assumption of Moses" is quoted by Jude and may in fact have some truth in it when it speaks of the his bodily assumption into heaven after death.

In neither case are these two described as "asleep on the Mt of transfiguration".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Indeed - the saints raised in the resurrection of Matt 27.

But no mention of "paradise" in Eph 4.

No mention of "captive in paradise" in Eph 4.

No mention of "Set free FROM paradise" in Eph 4.

In 2 Cor 12 Paul is taken TO paradise (so not a place to be captive or from which to be SET FREE).

In Rev 2 the tree of life is IN paradise and this is the promised REWARD of NT saints (so it is indeed STILL a good place to go TO)

In Luke 23 Christ offers paradise to the theif as a REWARD or PROMISE in answer to the request "Remember me WHEN you come into your kingdom" - Christ says to the theif that very day "I say to you today you WILL be WITH ME in Paradise"

There is no statement in all of scripture saying "Christ went DOWN TO PARADISE".

There is no statement in all of scripture that says "ANYONE wants/needs/is delivered FROM Paradise".

There is no statement in all of scripture that says "Sheol has two compartments".

There is no statement in all of scripture that says "Sheol no longer has two compartments".

How can everything said in your post be based on "no text in all of scripture actually says that"???

Answer: Tradition.

In Christ,

Bob

 

There are in fact only THREE texts in all of scripture that mention paradise and I gave DHK ALL THREE in my previous post.

So where does the imaginative story about "Paradise on wheels scooting all over the cosmos" come from? Or Saints "captive in Paradise and wanting to be let out"??

IT is pure tradition.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The problem with your quote there Brian, is this....

Revelation speaks of hell and the lake of fire as being two different places. Hell is said to deliver up it's dead to be judged. Then, death and hell are cast in the lake of fire. This is the second death.

After that, the unbeliever (who at this point truly has become a believer) is cast into the lake of fire.

 

It's my understanding from studying scripture that all who have been presented with the Gospel, and have refused to accepted it, are in Hell today. I can find no scripture which suggests that they are not. If I'm wrong, I welcome the posting of scripture to the contrary.

 

Hell is not simply 'the grave'. For the Word of God tells us when the rich man died, he lifted up his eyes tormented in flames.

There is a burning in hell, and I believe it is a literal burning. Mussolini, in his last breath on this earth begged someone to pull his feet out of the fire for they were burning.

 

Yes and no. You're correct that the Christian concept of Hell is not simply "the grave". "The Grave" is Hades/Sheol (in greek and Hebrew respectively). However, in the parable of the rich man, the man went to hades, not Hell. The parable is juxtaposing the comfort of being in Abraham's bosom and the discomfort of being apart from it. And the juxtaposition of the parable appears to be addressing righteous behavior, not salvation as we know it.

Other than that minor point, I agree with you pretty much on this topic.

 

I have always been taught/read that this is a literal event Jesus told, not a parable, since a name (Lazarus) is mentioned. I also would not say that this is not speaking of salvation, since righteous behaviour has never gotten anyone to heaven. Just a couple comments I wanted to make.

 

The story of the rich man and Lazarus was not a parable. Jesus actually named a person in the story.

He did not name people in His parables.

 

In the parable of the Rich man and lazarus -

#1. All the dead saints sit in Abraham's lap!
#2. Abraham is "in charge of the dead" he never asks God for a decision.
#3. The dead in hell can pray-to/appeal-to Abraham directly.
#4. Abraham is asked to send someone from the dead as a witness - to rise from the dead (AS IF) he could.

#5. The rich man "has a tounge in hell" and wants some water to solve the problem of burning.

There are many other indicators about WHY this parable would appeal to Jewish leaders (Abraham in charge of all the dead saints for example) but as Christ POINTS OUT in the parable "If someone will not listen to Moses and the prophets for doctrinal instruction - then neither will they listen to the one who rose from the dead".

A very instructive parable.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Sheol and Hades are the grave and in some translations in English say "hell" for that those words. ALL the dead are there today.

Fiery Ghenna (also translated hell in some versions) is fiery hell.

Nobody is there today.

 

That's up for debate. We cannot know for sure. It reads as a parable, and, imo, it likely was one. There doesn't appear to be any attempt to present it as factual. However, I certainly understand why people believe it might have been a real occurrence.

In the grand scope, whether it was a parable or an account really isn't important to what Jesus was saying. The message that Jesus was delivering is what is important.

 

Parables never use personal names.

The rich man and Lazarus were real persons with different destinies.

 

the story indicates that the rich man arose in a resurrection and saw Abraham in the Kingdom, and he himself (rich man) getting ready to be thrown into the lake of fire.


The rich man "lift up his EYES... and SEES Abraham. . ."
even as Jesus warned the Pharisees, "You shall SEE Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom, and you yourselves cast out" ( Luke 13:28).

 

Says who? I can't find that rule in "Parables for Dummies" anywhere.

Sorry, but it reads like all the other parables, and it likely is. Though, while I disagree with those who believe it might not be a parable, I certainly see why they believe this.

The truth is, we simply don't know for sure, either way, and whether it's a parable or account is quite unimportant. No reason to make this issue a doctrinal one.

 

I researched this very topic 3 years ago. I hope this helps.

Gehenna, or Hinnom, is a valley south of Jerusalem where the backslidden, idolatrous Jews at certain points in history sacrificed their children by fire to Molech and Baal. This valley later became the "garbage dump" of Jerusalem, and it is said that fires were kept constantly burning for the destruction of the filth thrown there. In most of its occurrences in the NT, Gehenna refers to the place of the lost.

Hades is the Greek word used to denote the unseen place of the dead. All the dead go there. However, there is a separation in that the evil dead are in torment while the righteous dead are not (see Luke 16:19-31).

Sheol is the Hebrew word for the place of the dead. As with the Greek Hades, all the dead go there. It is the abode of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead (Psalms 9:17; 16:10; 30:3; 31:17 are just a few references). Sheol is described as dark (Job 10:21-22), deep (Job 11:8 ) and barred (Job 17:16). The dead also go down to it (Numbers 16:30, 33; Ezekiel 31:15-17).

Did Christ descend into hell? The answer is both yes and no. It depends on your definition of hell. Jesus did go to the grave as in the abode of the dead. While on the Cross, Jesus promised the penitent thief they would be together in paradise that very day (Luke 23:43). I have found no evidence to support the theory that Jesus went into the part of Sheol/Hades where the wicked are tormented.

Christ was the first to break the bonds of death and the grave. He rose from the grave. Many think that when Christ conquered the bonds of death and the grave that He led the righteous dead to another place prepared for them. Christ had to be the first to conquer the grave or else His death and resurrection would not have been needed in order for OT saints to be rewarded. God had something better in mind for them (and for us), so the righteous dead were held until Christ came to free them (see Psalms 68:18 and Ephesians 4:7-10).

If, in fact, there is a new paradise where the righteous dead go, where is it? Many of today's fundamentalist Christian churches teach that it is "up" but can't say exactly where it is. The fact that Jesus ascended when He left the earth (Luke 24:50-53; Acts 1:9-11) gives credence to this idea. In John 6:62 Jesus is spoken of as ascending. Romans 10:6 speaks of ascending into heaven. 2 Corinthians 12:4 speaks of being caught up to Paradise. And in 2 Corinthians 5:6-9 Paul speaks of being "well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8 NKJV), indicating that, when we die in Christ, we go to be with Him.

Many think that Christ gave a second chance to those who were lost and in the grave, but I find no evidence that this is so. Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man once again (Luke 16:19-31). Did this event actually occur? I don't know. But whether Lazarus and the rich man were real people or not doesn't really matter. What does matter is the truth that Jesus taught through this parable. Once we have passed from this life into eternity, there is absolutely NO WAY to go from one place to the other. If we could go from one place to the other, everyone who ends up in torment would elect to go away from that terrible place. Everyone. Period. And if this were an option, it would mean that no one would receive their "just deserts" after death. It would make Christ's death and resurrection of absolutely no consequence. And since there is no way for us to go from one place to the other after we die, the ideas of purgatory and praying the dead "out of hell" are soundly disproved.

There will be an eternal "lake of fire" created at a later date. The grave (Sheol/Hades) will give up its dead so that they may face the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the world. Those whose names are not written in "the Lamb's Book of Life" will be sentenced to an eternity of fire and torment along with Satan and the fallen angels (Revelation 20:11-15). This place does not exist yet, but its permanence and the scope of its torment are a future reality.

 

Another popular belief that Jesus wrestled with satan for the keys of death and hell has no biblical proof.

In Revelation 1, the Lord tells us He has the 'keys of death and hell', but nowhere in scripture can we find that He was ever without them.