Is there anything I can't do...........

For example--drinking alcohol in "moderation" because you believe the Bible permits it--but only drunkenness is a sin?

 

Do the two of you have to hijack EVERY thread with your unbiblical drinking stance? Please, get lives!

 

Unbiblical drinking stance? I have read all of the posts these two have put in here and find nothing unbiblical in them.

The Bible teaches us not to drink alcoholic beverage.

Shiloh, Linda64, standingfirminChrist, preach on!

 

That's not too hard at all. In the Old West on stagecoach rides in the winter, it was WISE to carry a flask of a strong alcoholic beverage in the winter. Alcohol opens up the blood vessels and can prevent frostbite. That is also why the famed St. Bernard rescue dogs are pictured with flasks on their collars -- to keep keep found people from freezing before rescue arrived.

Small amounts of wine are good for the heart.

Red wine contributes to the blood's ability to transport iron in anemia.

Alcohol stops muscle spasms.

Alcohol can help combat stomach ulcers which are bacterially caused. It kills bacteria. This is probably the rationale behind Paul telling Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake. Grape juice does not help at all!

At times of sudden catastrophe, such as a death in the family or such, the Bible even recommends a little wine or beer to help the person relax and quit fussing so much.

Recent medical reports indicate that standard cough medicines are just about useless and can even be damaging to children. When my children were little one of them was allergic to coal tar derivatives, which are found in almost all artificial flavorings and colorings. The cough medicine we used for him was 1/3 honey, 1/3 lemon juice and 1/3 vodka. It tasted much too awful to take more than a teaspoon full at a time, but it worked so much better than anything else we had ever seen (the doctor gave us that recipe, and we used vodka because of no coloring and therefore no chance of coal tar derivatives) that this is still my cough medicine of choice (haven't had any in years as I haven't had a cough in years). I know EXACTLY what is in it, I know EXACTLY what to expect from it and I know there are NO side-effects!

Wine is a gift from God. It is the abuse of it, just like the abuse of anything else He has given us, which is the problem.

____________-

Now, about the thread!

I have enormous freedom in Christ where I, personally, am concerned. It is how I use this freedom which is the point of concern.

I can use it for the enjoyment of my own freedom, or I can use it to be of benefit to others.

I can use it for my own gratification, or I can understand that what it really does is give me the latitude to follow Christ wherever He leads without worrying about breaking some Pharisaical law. As for HIS laws, He will never lead me into breaking any of them, so I needn't worry about that.

 

Helen,

I beg to differ with you on this issue. I had a deuodenal ulcer some years ago and I have GERD and a hiatal hernia. Ulcers are caused by too much acid in your stomach, not bacteria. One of the first things the doctor told me to avoid was alcohol. I was married to a drunk for almost 20 years. He suffered so many stomach ailments because of his drinking. He had gastritis so bad one time that he was about to ask me to take him to the hospital--however, that did not stop him from drinking. Alcohol tears your stomach to bits and it does NOT help heal ulcers. In the case of Timothy, I seriously doubt whether Paul was recommending "fermented" wine to Timothy for his stomach ailments.

 

It does not. In fact, that very phrase is a scriptural perversion.

Scripture teaches us not to abuse the alcohilic beverage (such as drunkenness). It does not forbid simple use.

 

Sure I can. I had a glass of white wine with my Easter meal at my family easter dinner. During that dinner, we fellowshipped, reflected, prayed, and rejoiced. The dinner, which included the breaking of bread and sharing of wine, was a good and righteous event.

I had a glass of blush wine with my Thanksgiving dinner, and my family did the same thing. That dinner, as above, which included the breaking of bread and sharing of wine, was a good and righteous event.

At neither event was there gluttony, sloth, drunkenness, or abuse. In fact, there was much thanksgiving and praising of God at the table.

 

Helen,

I beg to differ with you on this issue. I had a deuodenal ulcer some years ago and I have GERD and a hiatal hernia. Ulcers are caused by too much acid in your stomach, not bacteria. One of the first things the doctor told me to avoid was alcohol. I was married to a drunk for almost 20 years. He suffered so many stomach ailments because of his drinking. He had gastritis so bad one time that he was about to ask me to take him to the hospital--however, that did not stop him from drinking. Alcohol tears your stomach to bits and it does NOT help heal ulcers. In the case of Timothy, I seriously doubt whether Paul was recommending "fermented" wine to Timothy for his stomach ailments. </font>[/QUOTE]Linda, I am deeply sorry for what you had to go through with your husband, and for your ulcers, but this might interest you:

In the early 1980's, Drs. Barry Marshall and Robin Warren of Australia discovered bacteria in the stomach lining of patients with chronic gastritis and peptic ulcers. The flagellated corkscrew-shaped bacterium, Helicobacter pylori, apparently survives in the forbidding acid environment of the stomach and duodenum by hiding in the mucus and neutralizing stomach acid in its local environment. Long thought precipitated by stress and stomach acidity, ulcers are increasingly believed related more to the presence of Helicobacter infection. Instead of prescribing milk to reduce stomach acidity, antibiotics are used in the successful treatment of peptic ulcers.
http://www.cellsalive.com/helico.htm

Here are a few other links:

http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ulcer.html

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/

etc. etc.

Too much alcohol destroys the body. So does too much of a lot of things. Salt will kill. Too much WATER will kill!

But I think you will find that those people who drink sparingly of wine have very few ulcers. The bacteria in their stomachs are destroyed by the alcohol. A small amount does NOT tear up the stomach lining! That is an absolute myth. Large amounts will damage blood vessels and a lot of other stuff in the body. Small amounts will not. However if you do have an advanced ulcer, the ACIDITY in the alcoholic will hurt it the same way that any other acidic drink will, such as orange juice!

 

Any doctor will tell you alcohol lowers body heat. Thereby causing hypothermia to set in quicker. Many a person has froze to death with alcohol in their system.

Exercise is better for the heart. Exercise is also beneficial for the body, which alcohol destroys.

Green vegetables such as Spinach, Kale, Collard Greens, etc, as well as liver are high in iron and do not destroy the body as alcohol does.

After going through several medical pages, I have not found one doctor to even prescribe alcohol for muscle spasm relief. Most prescribe foods high in potassium such as bananas and/or massage therapy for the area that is spasming.

Funny, when I was a teen, I had a stomach ulcer and doctors told me that alcohol was the worst thing
a person with an ulcer could drink.

Again, through the many pages I have gone over, Alcohol is not prescribed for stomach ulcers. Here is one doctor's advice:

How can ulcers be treated?

One way to treat ulcers is to get rid of the H. pylori bacteria. Treatment may also be aimed at lowering the amount of acid that your stomach makes, neutralizing the acid and protecting the injured area so it can heal. It's also very important to stop doing things, such as smoking and drinking alcohol, that damage the lining of your digestive tract.
taken from http://familydoctor.org/186.xml

If you are referring to Solomon's mother telling him to give strong drink to him that is ready to perish, that is not talking about calming a person down whose family member has died, as you implied.

[ January 10, 2006, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]

 

When we were in Spain, wine was served with every meal. Christians there drink it, as its a social American taboo, not a biblical one. Those who abstained and showed shock at the thought of partaking offended the Spaniards, who didn't understand what was happening. I tasted the wine. It did not effect me. My relation with the people I was there to work with was strengthened because I didnt shun them as others had for what is only a social custom.

 

Shiloh, Why do you resort to distortion and deception if you are in the right?

In all likelihood, John could have finished his meal and single glass of wine, blown straight into your face, and you wouldn't have been able to detect alcohol.

Try this to prove it- Use listerine then go eat a full dinner then ask someone to smell your breath.

Apply your logic consistently. Gluttony is a sin. Therefore, how many calories must you take in to be a glutton? 4000? 5000?... then if eat you 200 calories (two pieces of bread) does that make you 1/20th of a glutton?

No. That is obviously ridiculous... as is your assertion that drinking 1/20th of the amount of alcohol necessary for drunkeness makes you 1/20 of a drunk.

I really don't understand where you folks get off speaking where God hasn't. John and I disagree often but on this issue he is correct. The Bible condemns drunkeness, not consumption of alcohol generally. It does in fact give positive examples of its use as well as warnings about abuse.

 

Drink because it is a custom in another land? That is compromising.

If your family were to go visit for a time with another family that, it turned out, even though they claimed to be christians, they believed it was ok to smoke marijuana since God made the plant and all plants were given for man, would you smoke the marijuana with them?

 

How do you know I had alcohol on my breath? I probably had more ham or turkey on my breath than alcohol. So unless you can provide scripture that makes bad breath a bad witness, I think you're out of gas on this one.

You cannot be a holy drunk. I staunchly refrain from drunkeness when I consume alcohol. I also refrain from gluttony, for one cannot be a holy glutton, and sloth, for one cannot be a holy sloth.

I'm guessing probably three. But I never drink that much, because I am a staunch drunkenness avoider. The most I even have is one drink with a meal, and that's it.

How so? If three servings of ham makes you a glutton, does one serving of ham make you 1/3 of a glutton? If lying on the couch for 20 hours doing nothing makes you a sloth, then does lying on the couch doing nothing for 15 minutes make you 1/80th of a sloth? By your analogy, I would have to refrain from all food and all inactivity. The flaw of your analogy is quite apparant. And, again, scripture is wholely lacking.

 

No. It is recognizing that there are no scriptural commands against drinking without drunkeness and that the situation she was in allowed such an expression of Christian liberty without harming her testimony.

Does marijuana have any normal use other than making one "drunk"? I don't think so.

It has medical uses but that isn't the common use. Its users only value it in the amount necessary to make them high. Your comparison simply doesn't hold water.

 

Standingfirm, you go to another country and fuss at them for what you think is a sin, and you cant "really" substantiate it other than your own interpretation. See if you win any to Christ.

 

Brother Shiloh,

What is the web address for that site, please? I would like to check it out.

Ron