Is There Equal Authority Within Trinity Doctrine?

[ChristB4Us]

Not that I wish to create a factionalism within the independent fundamental Baptist church, even though the forum has been set up to distinguish between Baptist and other Christians when we are to be identified first and foremost as Christians anyway, but since Alberto Rivera, a former Jesuit, testified to a secret oath to the Jesuit General to sow discord in society to cause society to collapse and to infiltrate the Protestant churches to bring them back into the fold, I fail to see why the independent fundamental Baptist church would not be targeted in all that time down through history.

Those who defend the Trinity doctrine and the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, and even the worship of the Trinity by way of the creeds rather than scripture, does make me wonder that is the evidence the Jesuits has infiltrated the church?

We look at the Romans Catholic Church for how they created many "antichrists" which by application and definition means "instead of Christ" rather than "against Christ" like the lie that God gave more grace for believers to do works to earn their salvation by joining the RCC and doing the works of Catholicism within her. That by definition & principle is an antichrist.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

And the RCC created many antichrists by how they pray to God by way of the virgin Mary, the departed saints, and even the Holy Spirit and by the broad way, the blessed Trinity in worship as by definition and by principle is an antichrist.

As debates about the Trinity can be found by the extrabiblical sources that cited 1 John 5:7 regarding the 3 Witnesses in Heaven as originally scripture as far back as 200 A.D., the question is not about whether or not each Person of the Trinity is God but the question should be asked is, is there equal authority within the Triune God?

John 14:Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is because of verses like these two is why believers are led astray into not believing in the Trinity doctrine and the deity of Jesus Christ even though they do so at the expense of scripture.

This is how the Three Witnesses within the One God exists as the One God is because the will of the Father is to be done.

We see this in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus prayed 3 times to have the cup removed from Him but nevertheless He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own.

So the misapplication of the Trinity doctrine has deceived the Baptist churches by way of those creeds to worship the Trinity and even the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as "instead of Christ". Since that practice and doctrine exists in the RCC, one should be dubious about how this got into the independent, fundamental Baptist churches at some point in their history.

Because Jesus said explicitly how we are to come to God the Father by and how we are supposed to honor the Father by and even went further by saying when we are not honoring the Son, then we are not honoring the Father which is His Father's will.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Somehow the long held unbiblical practice has made null and void the Word of God and the will of the Father as Baptist churches are climbing up another way to God the Father "instead of Christ" and honoring God the Father "instead of Christ".

If we expect to correct other denominational churches of their false teachings by the scriptures, the independent fundamental Baptist church should start another reformation and lead by example in regards to how they come to the Father & honor Him in worship.by obeying the word of God and thus the will of the Father by coming to Him by way of the son in only honoring the Son in worship if they wish to honor & glorify God the Father by since that is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship..

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only......

If the independent fundamental Baptist church was on guard against external influence & infiltration of undercover Jesuits down through history, then they would be keeping that singular mind of Christ in worship which is according to the Father's will..... but that is not what I am seeing.

May God cause the increase & wake up some Baptist churches and mayhap even lead other churches to do a reformation.

 

[37818]

John 14:Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 13:16, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 17:3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 1:9, . . . the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Hebrews 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; . . .

 

[ChristB4Us]

.. leaving scripture out of quote

John 13:16, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Thanks for adding that scripture to the point of the OP on how the Father has the greatest authority within the Triune

John 17:3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Although overlooked, John 17:3 is an indirect testimony of knowing the Father as the One True God but also Jesus Christ as the One True God in Hs prayer to the Father.

John 1:9, . . . the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 1:9 is a testimony about Jesus Christ as the Word of God that created everything when read in context from John 1:1-14

Hebrews 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

I think one has t read this in context to see this as how Jesus is a testimony of the Father.

Hebrews 1:1.God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
.
As Jesus said the Father did not speak nor appeared unto men on John 5:37 but Jesus did before His incarnation as the Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many John 5:39-47 since Jesus did say that Abraham had seen Him in His day in John 8:56-59

When we look at how the Holy Spirit will speak for Christ, we see that the words of the Father are not Christ's so Jesus can fulfill His role as Head of the Church that every believer is to be subject unto.

John 16: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

1 Corinthians 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

And so there may be equality among the Father & the Son & the Holy Ghost but for the Three Witnesses to be as One God, there is only one authority in that Triune God and that is God the Father as His will is to be done.

Do we listen to His will as Jesus gave us His words for us to do in how we are to come to the father by His Son & only to honor the Son if we wish to honor God the Father or do we continue with an unbiblical church practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son or even the broad way by the blessed Trinity "instead of Christ"?

 

[37818]

Trinity refers to the Persons who are God. Any subordinations has to do with being Persons. But they being God, there is no subordinations. There cannot be. God is one.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Trinity refers to the Persons who are God. Any subordinations has to do with being Persons. But they being God, there is no subordinations. There cannot be. God is one.

Then explain why Jesus was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane 3 times for the cup to be removed from Him and yet He prayed in those 3 times that the Father's will be done and not His own.

Who is the head of the household in Biblical tradition? The Father.

So there is a subordination of the Son to the Father just as the Holy Spirit is to the Father.

How and why else would the Son say this?

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

So are we going to acknowledge scripture that there is no equal authority within the Triune God because the Father's will is to be done for how and why the Three are the One God to obey the Father's will and the Word of God as led by the Spirit of God to do by coming to the Father by the only way provided and that is His Son and to honor the father by the only way that has been provided and that is His Son or are we going to continue a practice & methodology that is every bit the definition of what an antichrist is as "instead of Christ"?

 

[37818]

Then explain why Jesus was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane 3 times for the cup to be removed from Him and yet He prayed in those 3 times that the Father's will be done and not His own.

Who is the head of the household in Biblical tradition? The Father.

So there is a subordination of the Son to the Father just as the Holy Spirit is to the Father.

How and why else would the Son say this?

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

So are we going to acknowledge scripture that there is no equal authority within the Triune God because the Father's will is to be done for how and why the Three are the One God to obey the Father's will and the Word of God as led by the Spirit of God to do by coming to the Father by the only way provided and that is His Son and to honor the father by the only way that has been provided and that is His Son or are we going to continue a practice & methodology that is every bit the definition of what an antichrist is as "instead of Christ"?

John 13:16, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 17:3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 1:9, . . . the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Hebrews 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; . . .

Do not forget Jesus was something God was not. He was actually a man.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

And so there may be equality among the Father & the Son & the Holy Ghost but for the Three Witnesses to be as One God, there is only one authority in that Triune God and that is God the Father as His will is to be done.

You have too much junk that you need to unlearn, before you can learn some other things, but you have held onto some of them and don't seem to be thinking about doing any rethinking on them any time soon.

Oh well.

Some references.

At "A Body of Doctrinal Divinity" by John Gill

28. is about the O.P., on point.

BOOK I: Of God, His Words, Names, Nature, Perfections, and Persons.

26. Of the Unity of God.

27. Of a Plurality on the Godhead; or, A Trinity of Persons in the Unity of the Divine Essence.

28. Of the Personal Relations; or, Relative Properties Which Distinguish the Three Divine Persons in the Deity.

29. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Father.

30. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Son.

31. Of the Distinct Personality, and Deity of the Holy Spirit.

BOOK II:
Of the Acts and Works of God.

6. Of the Everlasting Council Between the Three Divine Persons, Concerning the Salvation of Men.

7. Of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, Between the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

8. Of the Part Which the Father Takes in the Covenant.

9. Of the Part the Son of God, the Second Person, Has Taken in the Covenant.

10. Of Christ, as the Covenant-Head of the Elect.

11. Of Christ, the Mediator of the Covenant.

12. Of Christ, the Surety of the Covenant.

13. Of Christ, the Testator of the Covenant.

14. Of the Concern the Spirit of God Has in the Covenant of Grace.

15. Of the Properties of the Covenant of Grace.

16. Of the Complacency and Delight God Had in Himself, and the Divine Persons in Each Other...

Trinity refers to the Persons who are God. Any subordinations has to do with being Persons. But they being God, there is no subordinations. There cannot be. God is one.

Right. The Persons of God the Holy Spirit and God the Son have Offices.

 

[37818]

Right. The Persons of God the Holy Spirit and God the Son have Offices.

Yes, the Persons are distinct. As God they are the same God, not Gods. By offices, how you mean is is not specified.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

By offices, how you mean
is is not specified.

8. Of the Part Which the Father Takes in the Covenant.

"The Father, the first person in the Trinity, takes the first place, and gives the lead in this covenant.

"All things are of God", that is, of God the Father; they are of him originally, they begin with him; all things in creation; he has made the world, and created all things by his Son;

"and so all things
in the salvation of men,
"who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ"; he set on foot the council of peace, and so the covenant of peace, "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself";

"that is, God the Father; he planned the reconciliation of men in council, and proposed it in covenant, and settled it with the other two persons;

"and he is not only the proposer, but the prescriber and enjoiner of things in the covenant;

"he both proposed the work to be done, and took upon him the authority, by agreement, to prescribe and enjoin it: hence we read of the injunctions and commands laid on Christ with respect to his discharge of his office, as the mediator of this covenant,
(John 10:18, 12:49, 14:31)

"it was the Father that called Christ from the womb of eternity to be his servant, and directed and enjoined his work and service, as appears from
(Isaiah 49:16)

"and promised a reward to him on condition of his performing the service, and to bestow benefits on the elect in him, and for his sake."

9. Of the Part the Son of God, the Second Person, Has Taken in the Covenant.

"The part which the Son of God takes, and the place and office he has in the covenant of grace, are next to be considered.

"Christ has so great a concern in the covenant, that he is said to be the Covenant itself;
"I will give you for a Covenant of the people", (Isaiah 42:6, 49:8) his work, that which was proposed to him, and he agreed to do, is, as has been observed, the grand condition of the covenant, and he himself is the great blessing of it;

"he is the Alpha and the Omega, as of the scriptures, so of the covenant of grace; he is the first and the last in it, the sum and substance of it; he is everything, ALL in ALL in it;

"all the blessings of it are the sure mercies of him, who is David, and David's Son; he is prevented with all the blessings of goodness, and the covenant people are blessed with all spiritual blessings in him, as their covenant head;

"all the promises are made to him, and are all yes and amen in him; he sustains various characters and offices in the covenant.

"He is the representative Head of his people in it; he is the Mediator, Surety, Testator, and Messenger of it; of all which, more particularly and distinctly hereafter.

"At present I shall only observe Christ's assent to his Father's proposals, his acceptance of them, and open declaration of his readiness and willingness to act according to them, which formally constitute the covenant and compact between them; his consent thereunto is fully expressed in Psalm 40:6-8.

"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire; mine ears have you opened: burnt offering, and sin offering, have you not required.

"Then said I Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me:

"I delight to do your will, O my God! yes, your law is within my heart"...

14. Of the Concern the Spirit of God Has in the Covenant of Grace.

"Having considered the parts which the Father and the Son have taken in the covenant, the part which the Holy Spirit has in it is next to be treated of;

"who was not a mere bystander, spectator, and witness of this solemn transaction, compact, and agreement, between the Father and the Son, but was a party concerned in it.

"And, 1. First, The third person, the Spirit, gave his approbation of, and assent unto every article in the covenant.

"1a. In general, what respected the salvation of the chosen ones; for that is the grand and principal article of the covenant; "this", says David, speaking of the covenant, "is all my salvation", (2 Samuel 23:5) that is, the whole of his salvation;

"all things relative to it were provided for in it, and secured by it; in the economy of which each Person took his part;

"and that of the Spirit is Sanctification; which makes meet for the enjoyment of complete and eternal salvation;
hence called
"the sanctification of the Spirit" (2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2).

"And this clearly shows, that the Spirit approved of, and assented to the whole scheme of salvation, or of the thing itself in general;

"or otherwise he would never have taken a part in it; and as it was the purpose and will of God the Father to save men by his Son, and he appointed them to obtain salvation by him;

"so the Son of God came to seek and save men, being sent of God for that purpose in which mission of him the Spirit joined;

"Now the Lord God, and his Spirit, has sent me", (Isaiah 48:16) which is a plain proof that he approved of and assented to it, that the Son of God should be the Savior of men;

"and whereas it was proper that the Son of God should assume human nature, and in it work out the salvation of men;

"and which was agreed upon between the Father and the Son;

"so it was approved of and assented to by the Spirit; as appears from his concern in the incarnation of Christ; for what was "conceived in the Virgin was of the Holy Spirit", (Matthew 1:18, 20)

"and, seeing it was necessary that the Savior of men should suffer and die for them, to satisfy law and justice;

"and the divine Father enjoined his Son to lay down his life for them; to which command he became obedient;

"so the Spirit declared his approbation of it, by testifying beforehand, in the prophets,
"the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow"; as well as was assisting to the human nature of Christ, in the sacrifice of himself;

"since it was "through the eternal Spirit", he offered up himself without spot to God
(1 Peter 1:11; Hebrews 9:14).

"Once more, as it was highly proper, that as Christ should be delivered to death for the offences of men, so that he should rise again for their justification;

"or otherwise, the whole affair of salvation would have miscarried; hence the Father in covenant enjoined his Son, as to lay down his life, so to take it up again; and which he did, and in which the Spirit was concerned;

"and which showed his approbation of this closing part of the scheme of salvation by Christ (see Romans 1:4).


Then, these explore specific Offices of Jesus:

10. Of Christ, as the Covenant-Head of the Elect.

11. Of Christ, the Mediator of the Covenant.

12. Of Christ, the Surety of the Covenant.

13. Of Christ, the Testator of the Covenant.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Yes, the Persons are distinct.

As God they are the same God,
not Gods.

By offices, how you mean
is is not specified.

BOOK II: pg. 415.
Of the Acts and Works of God.

6. "Of the Everlasting Council Between the Three Divine Persons, Concerning the Salvation of Men."

"...I shall next consider the operations and transactions among the three divine persons when alone, before the world began, or any creature was in being; and which are, chiefly the council and covenant of God, respecting the salvation of men:

"1c. Does a council held between the three divine persons suppose any inequality between them;

"usually indeed with men, in matters of moment and difficulty, persons supposed to be of superior abilities are consulted, and their judgment taken;

"as Ahithophel by David, and the Israelites, whose counsel with them was as the oracles of God;

"but this is not to be supposed here, when the Father consults with the Son and Spirit, it is not because they have knowledge superior to him, or that he needs any information from them;

"they are one in nature; and are equal in knowledge and understanding;

"the Father is omniscient, the Son knows all things, and the Spirit searches the deep things of God; and yet may consult together;

"and three persons of equal knowledge and judgment among men may consult together about an affair of importance, without supposing any superiority and inferiority in them."

"1d3. This being the effect of a council between the three divine persons, shows their unanimity in it; as they are one in nature, so they agree in one;

"and as in everything, so in this, the salvation of men;

"the Father signified his mind that his Son should be sent to be the Savior of men, when he may be supposed to put such a question as in Isaiah 6:8.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" the Son, knowing his Father's will, and assenting to it, declared his agreement with it,
"Here am I, send me";

and the Spirit approving of the Father's motion, and the Son's consent, joined with the divine Father in the mission of him;
"Now the Lord God and his Spirit has sent me",
(Isaiah 48:16)

"and what inexpressible pleasure must such unanimity give to a believing soul, to declare which is the design of the divine consultation."

"2. Secondly, To give some proof that there was a council between the divine persons concerning the salvation of men.

"2a. An argument in favor of this may be drawn from the purpose of God;

"all whose purposes are called his counsels because they are founded in the highest wisdom, (Isaiah 25:1) now the purpose of God respecting the salvation of men, is the basis and foundation of the council held concerning it, in which purpose, as well as council, all the three persons are concerned;

"for the scheme of salvation, which is,

"the manifold wisdom of God, is according to the eternal purpose which he"
(God the Father)

"purposed in Christ Jesus
our Lord",
(Ephesians 3:10, 11)
and the Son was not only privy to this purpose or counsel, and agreed to it;

"but the Spirit also, who searches "the deep things of God", and approves of them, which are no other than the purposes and counsels of his heart
(1 Corinthians 2:10).

"3b1. Jehovah the Father, the first Person in order of nature, though not of time, may reasonably be supposed to give the lead in this affair, and proposed the thing to be debated and advised about;

"he who, concerning the creation of man, proposed it to the other two Persons, might, with great propriety, move for a consultation about his salvation: who is the Ancient of days, with whom is wisdom, and who has counsel and understanding, yes, is wonderful in counsel, as well as excellent in working;

"and so infinitely fit to conduct an affair of this nature
(Job 12:12, 13; Isaiah 28:29).

"3b2. Jehovah the Son, has the same wisdom, counsel, and understanding his Father has;

"for all that he has are his; nor does Christ think it any robbery to be equal with him;

"he is wisdom itself, or "wisdoms", he is possessed of the most consummate wisdom;

"in him, even as Mediator, are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge;

"and he himself says,
"Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom", (Proverbs 1:20, 8:14; Colossians 2:3)

yes, he is called
"the Wonderful, Counselor", (Isaiah 9:6) which not only respects his capacity and ability to give the best counsel and advice to men, as he does, but to assist in the council of God himself;

"... to which may be added, that Christ the Son of God, was as one brought up with his divine Father, lay in his bosom, was privy to his designs, and must be in his council, and was on all accounts fit for it.

"3b3. The Holy Spirit had a concern in this council, and was fit to be of it;

"Epiphanius says, as the Son is the Angel of the great council, so is the Holy Spirit;

"he is not only the Spirit of wisdom to men, and by whom is given to them, to one the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge;

"and therefore must be possessed of the most perfect wisdom and knowledge himself, (Ephesians 1:17;
1 Corinthians 12:8)

"but he is the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, and of counsel and knowledge, to and resting on Christ as Mediator, (Isaiah 11:2)

"and therefore must be a very proper Person to be concerned with the Father and the Son, in this great council;

"for never was such a council held as this, between such Persons, and on such a momentous and interesting affair."

 

[37818]

"The Father, the first person in the Trinity, takes the first place, and gives the lead in this covenant.

Changes the subject and avoids explanation of proposed Trinity offices.

 

[37818]

BOOK II: pg. 415.
Of the Acts and Works of God.

6. "Of the Everlasting Council Between the Three Divine Persons, Concerning the Salvation of Men."

"...I shall next consider the operations and transactions among the three divine persons when alone, before the world began, or any creature was in being; and which are, chiefly the council and covenant of God, respecting the salvation of men:

"1c. Does a council held between the three divine persons suppose any inequality between them;

"usually indeed with men, in matters of moment and difficulty, persons supposed to be of superior abilities are consulted, and their judgment taken;

"as Ahithophel by David, and the Israelites, whose counsel with them was as the oracles of God;

"but this is not to be supposed here, when the Father consults with the Son and Spirit, it is not because they have knowledge superior to him, or that he needs any information from them;

"they are one in nature; and are equal in knowledge and understanding;

"the Father is omniscient, the Son knows all things, and the Spirit searches the deep things of God; and yet may consult together;

"and three persons of equal knowledge and judgment among men may consult together about an affair of importance, without supposing any superiority and inferiority in them."

"1d3. This being the effect of a council between the three divine persons, shows their unanimity in it; as they are one in nature, so they agree in one;

"and as in everything, so in this, the salvation of men;

"the Father signified his mind that his Son should be sent to be the Savior of men, when he may be supposed to put such a question as in Isaiah 6:8.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" the Son, knowing his Father's will, and assenting to it, declared his agreement with it,
"Here am I, send me";

and the Spirit approving of the Father's motion, and the Son's consent, joined with the divine Father in the mission of him;
"Now the Lord God and his Spirit has sent me",
(Isaiah 48:16)

"and what inexpressible pleasure must such unanimity give to a believing soul, to declare which is the design of the divine consultation."

"2. Secondly, To give some proof that there was a council between the divine persons concerning the salvation of men.

"2a. An argument in favor of this may be drawn from the purpose of God;

"all whose purposes are called his counsels because they are founded in the highest wisdom, (Isaiah 25:1) now the purpose of God respecting the salvation of men, is the basis and foundation of the council held concerning it, in which purpose, as well as council, all the three persons are concerned;

"for the scheme of salvation, which is,

"the manifold wisdom of God, is according to the eternal purpose which he"
(God the Father)

"purposed in Christ Jesus
our Lord",
(Ephesians 3:10, 11)
and the Son was not only privy to this purpose or counsel, and agreed to it;

"but the Spirit also, who searches "the deep things of God", and approves of them, which are no other than the purposes and counsels of his heart
(1 Corinthians 2:10).

"3b1. Jehovah the Father, the first Person in order of nature, though not of time, may reasonably be supposed to give the lead in this affair, and proposed the thing to be debated and advised about;

"he who, concerning the creation of man, proposed it to the other two Persons, might, with great propriety, move for a consultation about his salvation: who is the Ancient of days, with whom is wisdom, and who has counsel and understanding, yes, is wonderful in counsel, as well as excellent in working;

"and so infinitely fit to conduct an affair of this nature
(Job 12:12, 13; Isaiah 28:29).

"3b2. Jehovah the Son, has the same wisdom, counsel, and understanding his Father has;

"for all that he has are his; nor does Christ think it any robbery to be equal with him;

"he is wisdom itself, or "wisdoms", he is possessed of the most consummate wisdom;

"in him, even as Mediator, are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge;

"and he himself says,
"Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom", (Proverbs 1:20, 8:14; Colossians 2:3)

yes, he is called
"the Wonderful, Counselor", (Isaiah 9:6) which not only respects his capacity and ability to give the best counsel and advice to men, as he does, but to assist in the council of God himself;

"... to which may be added, that Christ the Son of God, was as one brought up with his divine Father, lay in his bosom, was privy to his designs, and must be in his council, and was on all accounts fit for it.

"3b3. The Holy Spirit had a concern in this council, and was fit to be of it;

"Epiphanius says, as the Son is the Angel of the great council, so is the Holy Spirit;

"he is not only the Spirit of wisdom to men, and by whom is given to them, to one the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge;

"and therefore must be possessed of the most perfect wisdom and knowledge himself, (Ephesians 1:17;
1 Corinthians 12:8)

"but he is the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, and of counsel and knowledge, to and resting on Christ as Mediator, (Isaiah 11:2)

"and therefore must be a very proper Person to be concerned with the Father and the Son, in this great council;

"for never was such a council held as this, between such Persons, and on such a momentous and interesting affair."

John Gill, no.

 

[percho]

PHD = Salvation ? ! .

 

[David Lamb]

John Gill, no.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean. Are you disagreeing with John Gill, or with what someone wrote about John Gill on this thread?

 

[37818]

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean. Are you disagreeing with John Gill, or with what someone wrote about John Gill on this thread?

While Gill can be a useful commentary. No precise statement was directly cited or precisely quoted. So I am not interested to try to figure out some unknown point being made.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Changes the subject and avoids explanation of proposed Trinity offices.

God the Father holds no Office.

Jehovah the Father, the first Person in order of nature, though not of time, may reasonably be supposed to give the lead in this affair, and proposed the thing to be debated and advised about;

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

John Gill, no.

I don`t know if you have ever noticed, but I make the attempt to answer any given O.P., with the best resources that I have ever come across.

If there is any more on-point a source for answering any given O.P., I would always want to know what it might be that is more God-Honoring that is available on the internet.

For this O.P., if there is anyone who faces the assignment;
"Is There Equal Authority Within Trinity Doctrine?"
more thoroughly and respectfully than Gill, I don't know who that would be.

Where else are there other attempts to articulate it at all, to try and make a comparison?

As often as you resort to throwing the baby out with the bathwater, on anything you disagree with, this is just one more flippant example. Nothing new here, or edifying, etc.

Gill can be a useful commentary. No precise statement was directly cited or precisely quoted. So I am not interested to try to figure out some unknown point being made.

Also, my posts generally always have the most pertinent information highlighted in a bold red font, for anyone just looking for the meat and gist of my reply, where they can otherwise be `long`, to another`s taste. I just put down what I think is a blessing that is on my heart in my writings and/or from the secondary source materials that I believe Worship God and press the button.

In doing so, the resulting post should be able to be held up and gone down through, as an expression of Worship the Lord finds Pleasing and Acceptable. He has usually already said somewhere that He does, based on me just posting the answers as close to what is His Perspective as I am aware of. Do a better job of that if you like.

And/or with the cited Scriptures most always highlighted in bold purple, one can choose to only read them and they won't hurt you, I don't think.

The answer to the O.P., makes reference to a Big God, Who in many respects demonstrates Their Equality within Their Essence and Nature as the Triune Godhead, while Their Purposes also give indication of an Order presented to us, which each Person assumes in the Accomplishment and Administration of Their Eternal Plans.

That was the point left to be determined on your own.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

PHD = Salvation ? ! .

?

 

[37818]

@Alan Dale Gross,
As God all three Persons are the one Jehovah.

Now the Son of God is both 100% the man and 100% God.

It is that simple.

 

[percho]

?

Sometime threads appear to imply one needs a PHD in something to comment on the word of God.