is There Gifts Of faith/healing Today IN Church?

[TCassidy]

Using words like "silly" "hypocrisy" and "own up to it" as well as grammatical use of exclamation points all come across as angry and defensive. I engaged this subject for the purpose of discussion. Not to take part in this. There are ways to disagree without those personal attacks even if you are suspicious that one is being inconsistent. This is my last response to either of you. God Bless

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along? I called your assertion that the canon was still open "silly." It is silly, not to mention heterodox.

I never used the word "hypocrisy" but nice try.

And I said for you to "own up to it" regarding your having said the context was Christ (and His second coming) then denying it so I posted your exact quote.

And you are upset about punctuation? LOL! (Oh, sorry, I should have just said LOL, the exclamation mark must be obscene to you, or something.)

Now, just where was the "personal attack?" Please post an actual "personal attack." Not just your objections to calling your silly notions silly, or quoting your exact words, but my using the word "hypocrisy" or an actual personal attack. Time to put up or shut up, as we used to say. (You don't find the smile as obscene as an exclamation mark, do you?)

Take Paul's advice in Ephesians 4:15 "but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— . . ."

 

[Dr. Bob]

If I could not handle the confrontation of debate, I would not post on a debate forum. Seems only logical.

 

[Iconoclast]

JF,
do you believe this is of God?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixOr_bT0mOk&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSCuY7jyoTs&feature=fvwrel


do we need this false nonsense for any purpose at all?
How does this edify?
where is Jesus in any of this demonic nonsense:tear:

 

[TCassidy]

If I could not handle the confrontation of debate, I would not post on a debate forum. Seems only logical.

Yeah, but logic is not something we see a lot of on the BB. Except for you and me, of course, and to be completely honest, I have begun to wonder about you.

(I was going to use an exclamation mark but was in abject terror that you might be offended by my aggressive punctuation.)

 

[mandym]

If I could not handle the confrontation of debate, I would not post on a debate forum. Seems only logical.

Interesting, any type of confrontation goes on the Baptistboard so long as it is labeled debate. Unkind accusations, mischaracterizations etc. Got it.

 

[TCassidy]

Interesting, any type of confrontation goes on the Baptistboard so long as it is labeled debate. Unkind accusations, mischaracterizations etc. Got it.

Yes, you have done both and the Mods have allowed it. After all, if you look to the top of the page it says "Baptist DEBATE Forums." If you don't want, or can't handle, a debate, feel free to stay out of the Baptist DEBATE Forums. Or, as we used to say, "If you can't run with the big dogs better stay on the porch."

 

[Gershom]

If I could not handle the confrontation of debate, I would not post on a debate forum. Seems only logical.

There are rules of engagement. Debate is no problem, but personal attack cannot and should not be given a free pass and chalked up part of "debate."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Pope has a much larger following. Does that make him right and all Evangelicals wrong?

Pope shmope......Baptists have leeway to read & process any books & periodicals they choose to read. And I still differ with your opinion of the book. :tongue3:

 

[TCassidy]

There are rules of engagement. Debate is no problem, but personal attack cannot and should not be given a free pass and chalked up part of "debate."

Don't be so hard on mandym. He was so badly bested in the discussion that he came to the point where he either had to admit the bible is not his final authority or get nasty and quit. He chose the latter. Not a great surprise. Those who put "feelings" and "experiences" before the bible often turn tail and run when confronted with solid exegesis.

 

[TCassidy]

Pope shmope......Baptists have leeway to read & process any books & periodicals they choose to read. And I still differ with your opinion of the book. :tongue3:

I was pointing out your logical fallacy of "appeal to authority" by the statement concerning his large following.

 

[allinall]

I have seen the waters muddied between God directly answering faithful prayer (if it is according to His will), even miraculously, and God working through human agency, like the gift of healing, etc.

Most cessationists that I know will hold to the former, but deny the latter for obvious reasons.

When the waters are muddied between the two, (and sometimes this is done deliberately), the former is used to try to validate the latter.

The gift of healing was always through human agency. It always healed, everybody, instantaneously, completely, etc.. The standards for the true gift of healing that the Bible gives us...nobody comes close to that today.

However, if I, as Christian, cry out to God in prayer for healing, and I have other believers also faithfully praying for me, and God does answer that prayer, even if it is answered in a miraculous way, that's not the gift of healing. It's just God answering prayer. We call that providence.

What I see happening in many Christian churches these days is people who are being trained to only see God in miracles, and as a result, they then try to turn everything into a miracle, when most, if not all of it, is not miraculous at all.

When I say that something is not a miracle, it does not necessarily mean that i'm saying that God didn't do it. God providencially governs everything. Most of the time God works and answers prayer through providence. Through natural means.

I don't think that we glorify God more by trying to turn everything into a miracle. We do, however, glorify Him more when we recognize that God is even working in the small stuff, and not just in miracles.

Dave

 

[Gershom]

Don't be so hard on mandym. He was so badly bested in the discussion that he came to the point where he either had to admit the bible is not his final authority or get nasty and quit. He chose the latter. Not a great surprise. Those who put "feelings" and "experiences" before the bible often turn tail and run when confronted with solid exegesis.

My reply was to Dr. Bob, not mandym.

 

[TCassidy]

My reply was to Dr. Bob, not mandym.

So you were being hard on Dr. Bob? What did he do?

 

[revmwc]

What would they like look like in operation today?

Know that george Mueller was said to have Gift of faith as he never asked for funds directly, prayer warrior, God sent in 4 million dooars to keep orphanage operating in his lifetime...

Healing as valid today let's llok at scripture.


Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:

12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Acts 28:8And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

9So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed

Here we see Paul was able to heal the father of Publius.

Then we see toward the end of Paul's life something had changed.

2 Timothy 4:

20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

Was it that Paul didn't heal Him or had the gift of healing ceased by this time?

This was written in ca 62 A.D. soon Paul's life would be ended. The Acts passage was earlier in the life of Paul. So had the gift of healing ended for all, just Paul or was there a reason that Paul left him sick?

I believe it is a sign the gift was ceasing if not already having ceased. It may not be but what other explainations do you folks have.

As for the gift of faith Paul said no abides faith, hope and charity. Paul said the gift of Faith still abided so it was not an inpart or partial gift.

Faith that God will supply all or needs accordingto His riches in glory. Resting in faith for God to accomplish all He has promised. Faith to give when finances say we can't.

 

[glazer1972]

I believe that God does still heal and does do so through His church. About 15 years ago I had a terrible pain in my right knee. If I squated down for just a few seconds I wouldn't even be able to stand up without help. It felt like a railroad spike through it. One morning the Pastor read from James 5:14-15. I went forward that morning and told the Pastor that I had come in obedience to that scripture and that I was requesting them to lay hands on me and anoint my head with oil as that scripture specified. He said alright. Went back up to the podium and got the bottle of oil. He called the Deacons and the other Ministers forward. They each laid hands on me and anointed my head with oil. By the end of the next week I had no pain in that knee. I can squat for hours and there is still no pain. I had not and did not see a doctor about this. I am convinced that God healed me that day through mine and their obediance and faith. This was in a Southern Baptist Church.

James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him