Is there really a Calvinistic resurgence?

[preacher4truth]

Satan.

Jn 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Just as a person cannot be saved unless he willingly receives Christ, the children of the devil are those who willingly receive Satan. It was of Judas's own free will that he did this.

But Jesus had long before this foresaw that Judas would betray him.

Jn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jesus knew well in advance that Judas would betray him, this does not mean he caused Judas to betray him.

Again, it is like chess, you may see your opponent's strategy. You may see your opponent is going after your queen. Being a master player you see this would allow you to move your bishop and place your opponent on checkmate.

Maybe a poor analogy, but this is how I see it. God did not allow Satan or the Jews to kill Jesus until the exact time, the Passover.

But the Jews attempted to kill Jesus several times before the appointed time. If this thought originated with God, why would God cause these sinful thoughts before the appointed time, and why would Jesus have to escape through the crowd thwarting his own Father's will?

So, you see, this evil intent to kill Jesus did not originate with God, but from Satan and the Jews themselves. God countered their evil intentions until the exact appointed time and then CHECKMATE!

Who allowed it?

 

[DHK]

You wouldn't see it if shown to you.

Instead of throwing around derogatory insults, take a deep breathe, open up your Bible to 1Corinthians chapter two and read the entire chapter through two or three times before making another comment on it.

The first thing to notice is that Paul, in one way or another, is speaking of wisdom throughout the entire chapter. Even the first verse indicates this:

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. (1 Corinthians 2:1)

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: (1 Corinthians 2:4)

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:5)

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: (1 Corinthians 2:6)

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: (1 Corinthians 2:7)

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. (1 Corinthians 2:8)

In the first seven verses five of them mention "wisdom" specifically.
In verse 7 Paul states that he speaks the wisdom of God in a mystery. A mystery is simply something that had not been revealed up until that time. It was still Biblical truth. He is speaking of the gospel. You will note that Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. But what is the subject? It is wisdom. The wisdom concerns the gospel; nevertheless it is the wisdom that was ordained; specifically wisdom.

What does that tell us in verse 8? The princes of this world did not know wisdom. They were foolish (unwise). That is the meaning of the verse. A wise person would not have crucified Christ. Only fools would do such a thing. Fools reject wisdom. The subject here is wisdom.

Read the rest of the chapter. It concerns wisdom.
You can't rip the verse out of its context and say the subject is predestination. That is not the subject here.

 

[preacher4truth]

Instead of throwing around derogatory insults,.

Just going off past experience, as per your rejection that "You must be born again" is not an imperative. Not a thing derogatory about that.

I've been in this book. Like I said, why waste my time showing you when you won't accept fact that born-again is not an imperative? You've been shown this plainly and still reject it, turning an indicative into an imperative besause of the word YOU.

God allowed His Son to be crucified, and also allowed those to not know Who He is, or what they were doing. He reserves the ability to blind some, to fulfill His purpose. He has decreed it to be so.

All of this is in His Wisdom. There is no ripping out of context as you derogatorily suggest.

 

[DHK]

Not a thing derogatory about that.

Your remark was derogatory. There was no need for it.

I've been in this book. Like I said, why waste my time showing you when you won't accept fact that born-again is not an imperative? You've been shown this plainly and still reject it.

Can you not keep on topic. You are trying to use 1Cor.2:7,8 to justify that the horrible acts of Jeffrey Dahlmer are the determined will of God. All things are the direct will of God, you say. Do you want me to go back and put that post in direct quotes for you.

God allowed His Son to be crucified, and also allowed those to not know Who He is, He reserves the ability to blind some, to fulfill His purpose. He has decreed it to be so.

I never disagreed with that. But you said that Dahmer's actions were the determined, not the permissive will of God, but the direct will of God, as to say that God decreed it to be so. That is far different than saying "He reserves the ability to..." Or, he permits evil..
You are not consistent in your statements. Or you are changing your stance as people post showing you that hard determinism is not Biblical.

All of this is in His Wisdom. There is no ripping out of context as you derogatorily suggest.

Chapter two is speaking of wisdom. You took verses 7,8 out of the context and tried to put another spin on it. And then you had the gall to spout off some foolish remarks at me.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your remark was derogatory. There was no need for it.

Chapter two is speaking of wisdom. You took verses 7,8 out of the context and tried to put another spin on it. And then you had the gall to spout off some foolish remarks at me.

Problem is I've seen you make so many remarks against so many others intelligence that I can't see past that. There was not a thing derogatory comparatively. Not even close.

No, I took nothing out of context. "Out of context" to you means using Scripture to prove you incorrect. This I am guilty of.

I see nothing profitable in engaging with you. No more.

 

[Skandelon]

I will one up you. What do the Scriptures say? Can they do this without His authority?

Two different questions. The first question asks where the intent originated, while the second question asks who, by his own authority, allowed it.

The answers are different to each of those questions in my view and I want to know if they are different in yours as well. God didn't not originate the intent to do evil, but he did permit it. What say you?

 

[preacher4truth]

Two different questions. The first question asks where the intent originated, while the second question asks who, by his own authority, allowed it.

The answers are different to each of those questions in my view and I want to know if they are different in yours as well. God didn't not originate the intent to do evil, but he did permit it. What say you?

Interesting indeed.

The intent was from Satan toward Job.

The authority to accomplish said task? God.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Skandelon]

Interesting indeed.

The intent was from Satan toward Job.

The authority to accomplish said task? God.

Very interesting indeed.

Ok, so the intent came from Satan, but where did he get it? Did it originate in him or did God originate it and put it there?

 

[Winman]

Who allowed it?

I'm sorry, your view is wrong. Satan tried to tempt Jesus to leap off the temple. Did Jesus fall for his trick? NO.

And at least twice we know the Jews tried to kill Jesus.

Jn 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Some believe Jesus became invisible here, how could he hide himself, and yet go through the midst of the crowd that wanted to kill him?

Did God cause these Jews to desire to kill Jesus? If so, why did Jesus hide himself and thwart his Father's will?

Jn 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand.

If it was God's will that they sought or desired to take Jesus here, why did Jesus ESCAPE from them?

Does this sound like God and Satan were working together as a team? Or does it show that God was countering Satan's attempts to kill Jesus?

God did not cause Satan or the Jews to desire to kill Jesus. He countered and opposed them until the exact time Jesus was to go to the cross.

Your view is rather hyper.

 

[preacher4truth]

Ok, so the intent came from Satan, but where did he get it? Did it originate in him or did God originate it and put it there?

Wow. Who created him? And in so doing He had all knowledge of him and all his doings. God knew from whom it would originate. And He created him.

 

[Winman]

Wow. Who created him? And in so doing He had all knowledge of him and all his doings. God knew from whom it would originate. And He created him.

You are a father just like me. You knew before you decided to have children they would sin.

Is it your will, desire, or intention that your child would sin? It is certainly not mine.

Answer that please.

 

[jbh28]

You are a father just like me. You knew before you decided to have children they would sin.

Is it your will, desire, or intention that your child would sin? It is certainly not mine.

Answer that please.

You didn't create your children, God did.

next question

 

[Winman]

You didn't create your children, God did.

next question

That is nothing but evasion. Any parent knows their children will commit sin, but no parent in their right mind desires or intends for their children to commit sin.

Wouldn't this qualify as what we call a "necessary evil"?

I mean, you could decide not to have children and therefore not bring a sinner into the world, but you would never have children to love would you?

God could have decided not to create angels or men and therefore sin would not have come into existence, but wouldn't it be pretty lonely up there in heaven?

It is a natural desire for men to want to have children to love, could it be possible that God also has this desire? In fact, isn't it possible that we acquired this natural desire from God when he created us in his image?

Could God create a creature equal to himself? Wouldn't anything God creates have to be inferior in all of his attributes? If God is perfectly holy, could he create a creature that is equally holy? How can any created being be equal to God in any of his qualities or attributes?

So, isn't it necessary that God's creation be inferior to him?

 

[jbh28]

That is nothing but evasion. Any parent knows their children will commit sin, but no parent in their right mind desires or intends for their children to commit sin.

Wouldn't this qualify as what we call a "necessary evil"?

I mean, you could decide not to have children and therefore not bring a sinner into the world, but you would never have children to love would you?

God could have decided not to create angels or men and therefore sin would not have come into existence, but wouldn't it be pretty lonely up there in heaven?

It is a natural desire for men to want to have children to love, could it be possible that God also has this desire? In fact, isn't it possible that we acquired this natural desire from God when he created us in his image?

Could God create a creature equal to himself? Wouldn't anything God creates have to be inferior in all of his attributes? If God is perfectly holy, could he create a creature that is equally holy? How can any created being be equal to God in any of his qualities or attributes?

So, isn't it necessary that God's creation be inferior to him?

Again, you didn't create your children. You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Winman]

Again, you didn't create your children. You are comparing apples and oranges.

If you are not going to answer questions, why don't you drop out of this conversation I was having with P4T?

I did in a sense create my children as God gave us the ability to procreate. It is not apples and oranges at all. Just because God created us does not mean he intended us to sin.

I will ask you directly, when God created man, did he INTEND for man to sin?

 

[psalms109:31]

Children

Children are brought into the world by a man and a female getting together doing what God told them to do procreate.

If man and women don't get together God will not create a new life.

It is the work of God and man.

This is the same reason Jesus sent out the disciple's to make disciple's of all nations procreating believers, God and man working together.

We know in the end the new children will not happen without man doing the work that God prepared in advanced for them to do and then they can try all they want to have children, but if it wasn't for God they would not have children.

We do our part and it is up to God for the new life.

 

[jbh28]

If you are not going to answer questions, why don't you drop out of this conversation I was having with P4T?

I did in a sense create my children as God gave us the ability to procreate. It is not apples and oranges at all. Just because God created us does not mean he intended us to sin.

I will ask you directly, when God created man, did he INTEND for man to sin?

You still didn't create your children. You didn't create man. There's a big, big difference. I understand what you are trying to say, but there's a big difference.


No, God created man to be perfect and we messed up all of God's plan. He didn't want to show his mercy with Jesus Christ, but had to because we changed God's plan.

 

[Skandelon]

Wow. Who created him?

God, obviously

And in so doing He had all knowledge of him and all his doings.

God's knowledge of what Satan will do is not equal to God originating the intent to do the evil, is it?

God knew from whom it would originate. And He created him.

So, you agree that the evil originated in Satan? How? Can a creature originate something? And if so, doesn't that inform God and thus undermine your view of sovereignty?

 

[preacher4truth]

God, obviously

God's knowledge of what Satan will do is not equal to God originating the intent to do the evil, is it?


So, you agree that the evil originated in Satan? How? Can a creature originate something? And if so, doesn't that inform God and thus undermine your view of sovereignty?

Not at all. But since you brought it up, I think it is undermining your view of Sovereignty. I have no problem with this at all.

Sin must have originated in the allowing plan of God to be so. None of it makes God any less God and Glorious than He is. None of it out of His control or will.

I wonder would there had ever been evil or sin without there ever being a created world, including all principalities and powers created? Surely not.

- Peace

 

[quantumfaith]

Children are brought into the world by a man and a female getting together doing what God told them to do procreate.

If man and women don't get together God will not create a new life.

It is the work of God and man.

This is the same reason Jesus sent out the disciple's to make disciple's of all nations procreating believers, God and man working together.

We know in the end the new children will not happen without man doing the work that God prepared in advanced for them to do and then they can try all they want to have children, but if it wasn't for God they would not have children.

We do our part and it is up to God for the new life.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Yes, new life is the result of man acting according to the engineering specs and design intentions of the original Creator of life.