Originally posted by shannonL:
Originally posted by shannonL
I think in all my years of being a christian, going to Bible school pastoring etc... Frogman is the best example I have ever come across of a hyper-calvinist.
Frogman:
I am not even a Calvinist, therefore, I cannot be a hyper-Calvinist.
Originally posted by shannonL:
To be quite honest with you froggy I had to rub my eyes and look twice at your picture. I know I saw your head puffing up with all that hot air, I mean knowledge.
I pity fellows like yourself. I believe there are alot of folk of your persuasion who lay awake at night wondering if they are gonna make it in or not.
Frogman: 'froggy' (yet speaking about
my arrogance. My head is obviously not puffed up, have you noticed I haven't had to claim a superiority through Bible College training?
As far as pitying me and folks of my persuasion pleased don't worry yourself, there is a greater peace in my heart that God will accomplish His work through Christ than there could ever be in your. As far as wondering if I am gonna make it or not I have never said the Spirit does not give assurance of adoption (Romans 8:14-16) declares it is the Spirit that gives witness to us that we are children of God, why would I need you to tell me?
Origninally posted by shannonL:
Your blathering on and on on this post was ridiculous. You talk in circles friend.
God didn't write the Bible in some secret, code language that only intelectual giants could decipher.
Frogman says:
Statements like this and still you will claim my arrogance? Almost unbelieveable, but you can't help it, it is your superior Bible College training talking and probably not your true attitude, so I will disregard it knowing you are beside yourself, admiring your degree.
Everything I have stated is supported by and in Scripture. I have never said God wrote the scripture in Secret, the Bible even tells Jacob it was not written in secret, oh, wait, not everyone is of Jacob, and even not everyone who are of Israel are of Israel, but faith is counted for the seed. Oh dear, this blabbering hyper-calvinistic non-Bible college froggy does know scripture.
When did I say I am/was an intellectual giant, you are the one claiming a Bible College training. All I have done is read the word of God since I was able to read, seeking, searching, desiring to understand, long before I knew anything of man's yokes of bondage upon God's dear children.
Originally posted by ShannonL:
The arrogance by which you state your position only reveals the weakness of the legs that it stands upon. The word condescending comes to mind when reading your posts.
Frogman says:
More with
my arrogance. You must not read what you write while writing it. My position is the only Biblical position there is, I will show you why from the words of Paul. as you make reference to Paul's statement in Rom. 1:16 you are desiring to leave off his statement in vs. 17; he says, 'therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith' I ask you and all, 'wherein'? in the Gospel is the righteousness of God revealed...now if something is revealed that means it is there all along but only revealed through the Gospel.
What is the righteousness of God? Well we don't rightly know my Bible College trained friend, why not, because we cannot obtain to it except through Christ, it is at no time ours, not mine, nor yours, but His imputed to us; He (Christ for you slow Bible Colleged minds) is the righteousness of God revealed.
Then Paul says to Timothy that it is the gospel that brings 'to light life and immortality' also in a passage in which he is encouraging Timothy to not be ashamed of the gospel and the suffering for sake of the gospel. I too am not ashamed to suffer for sake of the gospel of Christ which is the message that brings to light life and immortality, that were already present, already there as they are revealed in the gospel from faith to faith. (Again, froggy did more than a courtin dear brother (assuming upon you here your correct gender as you mentioned years of pastoring, certainly you are not a sister) See how easily a non-Bible Colleged mind can operate, no restrictions, no fears of writing the wrong things and getting poor marks; just simple faith and trust in God and His Word.
Originally posted by shannonL:
You would have felt right at home in William Cary's day. I suppose you would have been right comfortable with all those hot air, hyper-calvinists that stood in the way of Cary's call to India. Thank the Lord he didn't listen to them.
Frogman says:
I would have been at home in his day. I care not that Carey went to India, I have a burden for Bhutan, but neither burden are or were nor can they be accomplished doubting that the purpose for going is that some there will validate the work of God in Christ, no instead I can go knowing that He has a people from every tongue, tribe and nation, and therefore there is a need to call them to rest in their redeemer in order that those who are burdened and heavy laden may find rest. (BTW which is the only Biblical invitation and it is given to those who are burdened and heavy laden.)
Originally posted by shannonL:
"The Gospel has no power toward regeneration"
Romans1 :16 For I'am not ashamed of the GOSPEL of Christ: for it is the POWER of God UNTO SALVATION to EVERYONE THAT BELIEVETH.
I agree with J of Japan. Romans 10 definitly teaches that God uses MEN TO PREACH the Gospel so some may hear and be saved.
Romans 10 speaks of the revelation of the righteousness of God (Romans 1:17) through the gospel message. Romans 10 declares that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word 'rhema'
exclamation of God, not man. Romans 10 declares this work to be a heart work first, then a confession upon their lips, the gospel reveals that circumcision of the heart (Romans 1:17 2 Tim. 1:9). Rightly dividing the word of truth does not require a Bible Colleged knowledge, but it must come out, like in all division problems, it must come out to be a true statement capable of being proven true by reversing the order. To divide scripture from itself and thereby have it to oppose itself is not a true division, but will render a wrong faith and practice.
originally posted by shannonL:
For all you so called baptist out there who got one foot in the pool of liberalism let me ask you a question.
If a man can be saved without hearing the Gospel, which means the Bible must be preached. Then what does that do to the authority of the Bible concerning our faith? I'll tell ya what it does. It undermines the Authority of Scripture that is exactly what it does.
God will not contridict His own Word. If He tells us a person must HEAR His Word in Rom.10 in order to be saved, He will either send someone to that person , or that person, by the power of the Spirit of God through the intercession of the prayers of the saints will be directed, be it circumstances etc... will be led to someone or some place that preaches the Gospel from the Scriptures period, end of discusssion.
Froggy says: End of discussion? Growing tired of defending your Bible Colleged knowledge? I have already shown you that Romans 10 does not say that man must hear man, he must hear the 'rhema' of God, the voice of his/her shepherd. You and your Bible Colleged knowledge take the power of the Gospel away from God and hang the eternal hope of His children upon the power of men and man's obedience to the faithful preaching of the gospel and only God and our Saviour Jesus Christ is faithful in all his house. This position only does harm to your conception of the Scriptural authority because you cannot understand it because your understanding is through the view of your Bible Colleged degree. quit reading through that man made peice of paper and start reading the Bible. It is plain and has no need of a Colleged knowledge to understand it.
originally posted by shannonL
BTW, DR. Bob was right on target when he said there needs to be more discerment among baptists when it comes to doctrine. The problem with that DR. B. is the fact that doctrine is out self help is in. It is sad because if folk only realized that the study of doctrine would eliminate alot of the problems they have with themselves.
Oh well. This was one of the best OP I've read in a long while on this board. Thanks for stirring the waters with it.
Froggy says: "self-help" is in? by whose standards? I have never proclaimed 'self-help'. It is your view of man preaching the gospel as the means of regeneration that declares man is now left to a course of 'self-help'. The study of the Bible Truth and the laying down of man's doctrine would be the first place to start. Man has to perpetuate the fear that God cannot save His people without 'man's' help, or else there would be no more use of Bible Colleges and seminaries scattering our landscape selling their political agendas to as many who will hear and pay for their agenda. Yes, thanks for stirring the waters in order that the mythology of centuries that an angel (read messenger) will come down and 'heal' us instead of the expressed image of the Eternal God, manifesting in Himself the righteousness of God, our place of propitiation and by HIMSELF purging us of our sins.
Yes, thank you Dr. Bob for an opportunity for me to give reason of the hope that is in me.
May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton
