Is this heresy?

bound,

I hear ya and I am very close to you theologically, but I wonder if you would clarify what kind of negetive response you are referring to? Sinful or not accepting of the atonement?

 

No, need to try again, there was the woman caught in adultery and I rest assure there were others. You don't have a lock on sin Ed.

 

So Bob, since you think adultery is one of them and if you were in that little circle where Jesus had just written in the dirt, you would be able to cast the first stone, eh? :laugh:

 

Didn't say we don't sin, you speak as a foolish man.

 

That is a cope out. Can you die in your sins and go to Heaven? Thats easy to answer.

If you die in your sins, then it is because you are an unbeliever, according to Christ. It is the unbelief that bars you from being with Him, not the sins. You are concentrating on the sins, which is the effect. The CAUSE is what Jesus concentrated on -- belief.


Which is sin but not the only sin and He said they would die in their sins and where He is they could not come.

You are ignoring the rest of the passage and you know, as a minister, that that is poor exegesis. Let Bible explain Bible.


Ok, you have experience so you should be able to answer better than others but I guess we all have had some experience with adultery.
Could a "saved" person cause all this heart ache and destruction?
If so, God's people are not too moral.

My personal opinion is that none of those adulterers were saved, but I am not God, right? He is the judge and that's that. Their adultery was the result of who they were, not the cause of it, however (assuming they were not saved).


Here is the problem, you fail to make way for God's Grace.

May take us time but God doesn't need to the time to know how to keep us.

Of course God knows how to keep us. That is why we do not lose our salvation even when we slip and fall. It is us who need the time, and you don't seem to be willing to allow for that.


Didn't say we don't sin, but did say the Grace of God wasn't a one time thing but continues with us to keep us till death. We also were given His Grace to be righteous, Helen.

Maybe you caught on to all of it right away. I know I didn't. I know I am still learning to follow and obey and to love. I'm getting there, but there are days when I think the Holy Spirit must be awfully frustrated with me and that I have a long way to go.

But then I look back, and see how much He has already done....and I know the work is being accomplished. Thank you, Lord.

It is not denying Christ's toning death if you tell them the truth about sin and there are some sins that God's children just don't do.

Well, we would like to think that there are sins God's children just don't do. I'm with you on that one. But I don't know that for sure, and neither do you. I do know this -- they do not sin repeatedly; they do not live in sin. They do not have, nor do they want, a 'ticket to sin.'

 

Do I? You said there are some that God's children just don't do.

(Joh 8:10) When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

(Joh 8:11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Wisen me up would you, by explaining this.

 

So, if someone dies in adultery, he is an unbeliever?

No, his message to them was if they die in their sins. I can't see him giving them one message and us another.

When I preach funerals, regardless of how they die, I make not attempt to say or think where they went for it is God who will be the final judge, but while they live I sure am not going to tell them if they commit adultery it is covered by the blood.

Not to the point of homo or adultery etc.

Yes, I make mistakes like you do but I am sure you are not an adultereous or would ever be.

I take one , work on the rest.

 

Speaks for itself. She was an adulteous, Jesus forgave her and told her to sin no more. The sin not more part is where you are having a hard time.

 

Nor does Scripture use any word for repent concerning the woman in adultery. Is there something wrong with demanding Scriptural terminology, here? Or does that not fit the theology?

Ed

 

not deserving of an answer. If you know a small child ask them and they can tell you.

 

I don't know Bob what about being free:

(Joh 8:33) They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

(Joh 8:34) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

(Joh 8:35) And the servant abideth not in the house forever: but the Son abideth ever.

(Joh 8:36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.



(Joh 8:46) Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

 

Ben;
We discussed all of this. I suggest you read the entire thread. If I answer everyone who comes in late, I never get done. Something tells me the people there who called her and adultereous knew her much better than you do.

 

Do you think Jesus was threatening her with hell if she committed one more sin one more time? Or was He, rather, telling her to forsake that lifestyle?

Unlike you, Bob, I am unwilling to say that adultery is the sin which cannot be forgiven, or that if a saved person has a horrid stumbling ONE time into adultery that he is hell-bound. I can't imagine it happening, but my imagination is not the be all and end all of judgment!

 

Well, I know what one thinks of the Bible's own words, then, so I will bow out from this thread. If Scripture cannot speak, then I certainly can't to this.

Ed

 

I don't know how you think that I believe adultery is not a forgiveable sin. All sin is forgiveable except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Why do you and others keep putting words in my mouth. There must be a reason for doing so.
What I don't believe is a Christian can commit adultery. They either were never a Christian or they are lost forever, seeing they put God to an open shame. According as I understand the scriptures.
So, I would rather think they were mistaken in their conversion in the first place of which many are.

 

What gives you the right to determine which sins God can and cannot forgive?
Did God give you this authority?
What proof do you have that God, in all of his omnipotence cannot forgive the adultery of a believer of which we have a definite example in 1Cor.5:1-5.

 

Scripture............

Because the called him a brother does not mean he was saved. You have no idea how he came back in the church. Paul said restore him but how was that.

He undoubtable had never tasted of the fruits of the Holy Ghost.

Hebrews, chapter 6

"4": For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

"5": And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

"6": If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

I am amazed how you would deny that "brother" in this context would not mean Christian. How could it not mean anything else. The saved are children of God, brothers and sisters in Christ. This is the sense in which Paul uses the word. It can have no other meaning unless it denotes an actual physical relation. And Paul wasn't his relative.

Now you are reading into the Scripture, and saying things that you don't know. That is how Catholics get the doctrine of purgatory.

Secondly, just because Paul doesn't say "HOW" he was restored, is of no consequence. 2Cor. teaches that he was restored. Just because he may not have been restored according to the constitution of your particular church does not mean it wasn't biblical. He was accepted as a brother in the Lord. He, of course had never lost that status as "a brother in the Lord," for he had never lost his salvation in the first place.

And what has this Scripture got to do with the price of tea in China, or with the erring brother in Corinth?

 

Now just answer the questions.

 

God is God and can do or not do whatever he wants. what gives you the right to change His scripture to saying that all sin can be forgiven when He said except Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in this world or the one to come?
I have no right to judge who goes to Heaven or not. I should of been saying who has a right for membership in our church.
I can and have posted who the scriptures say that will not go to Heaven.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


I don't believe any such thing as an unpardonable sin exists today. Are we limiting God? Is there any sin so great that God cannot forgive. Then God is not omnipotent, and is rather cruel and capricious. I believe you have to take that passage in its historical context. It was meant for a specific audience at a specific time in history. It is not for every age.
God is able to forgive all sins no matter how wicked they are. Let's not limit Him.__________________
DHK