Is this heresy?

Don't mean to be, I went back and remove a remark. Sorry.

I thought I would give you all another scripture since you made excuses for the last one.

Jhn 5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

 

Thanks, no problem.

I think my main point at this point in the thread is simply that we daren't judge a man's heart. I understand what you are saying, but I think that perhaps we need to understand that living in a state of sin is quite different from a born again Christian who sins.

The fact that we are given a way out of every temptation does not mean we always take advantage of that. And that is to our shame. But it is not to our damnation.

Perhaps it should also be mentioned that the unregenerate person really does not have a way out of temptation, at least in his heart. The most he can do is hope to control his words and body to some extent (which we all appreciate...). But the born again Christian has a way out, so that we have no excuse, really. And that is part of the deep shame we should feel when confronted with the fact of our sins.

But we do sin. And whether we die at that moment in time is entirely in God's hands. I am very, very grateful He judges the heart.

Edit: about the John verse you quoted in the last post -- Jesus could well be warning of simple consequences. We do suffer those! "Don't do that again" (go and sin no more), is a warning about what you will bring on yourself. But salvation is for those who believe (not intellectual acknowledgement but the entire giving up of onself in faith). Believers will still sin, even though they don't want to. And we are always warned about consequences, the same as we warn our kids.

 

You are not the first to say this and I would like to know why? Is Jesus's blood just some ticket to the worst of sins. I mean I thought His Blood is precious, but to make it a "ticket" to sin is degrading and I do not agree. His blood washes us clean but does He wash and wash and wash or does His Grace make a way for our escape after being cleansed up?

Hebr 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

1Cor 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

We should teach people that, not to do such things, if they want to be a good Christians, instead of always making a way for them to do it and be saved, regardless. No wonder the scriptures calls it "fables".

God help the church. amen,

 

There is no such thing as a "good Christian", BB. Forgiven, born again...but not "good".

 

It still seems like this whole issues is still stemming from adultery. Lust is adultery according to Christ. I struggle with lust. I'm not proud to admit that, but that is a weakness satan uses in my life. I don't want to lust, and I am constantly on guard against that, but it does happen. According to Christ, I committed adultery. If I got hit by a car while lusting, It's absurd that Christ's blood was never sufficient to cover that sin. SIN IS SIN.

You want to deny the word of God, go for it!

I don't want to deny the Word, but interpet it in it's proper context! I highlighted and enlarged who exactly "can't go to Heaven". Every sin listed in the above passage in reference to "not going to Heaven" are being committed by the UNJUST or UNRIGHTEOUS...not the sinful acts themselves commited by the UNRIGHTEOS. Every act is pointing back to the UNRIGHTEOUS. To insinuate the RIGHTEOUS cannot commit those same sins is just plain wrong.

Lot was called by God RIGHTEOUS while living in a city where those very sins were taking place. A RIGHTEOUS Lot even got drunk! For all we know all of the sins mentioned in 1 Cor. 6 could have been committed by a RIGHTEOUS Lot. I know you are going to say that this is OT, and he wasn't indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but RIGHTEOUS is RIGHTEOUS whether OT or NT. God will preserve the RIGHTEOUS no matter what sin is committed. OSAS is not a NT principle only.

 

Bob, why on earth you are claiming that we are saying that Christ's sacrifice gives us a 'ticket to sin', I have no idea. Have you not been reading the posts?

Remember what John says? "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

No one here, that I have read, is claiming that salvation gives anyone a 'ticket to sin.' Rather, from what I have seen, we are simply acknowledging that we do sin. We don't want to. We don't like it. We are ashamed of it. But it happens. And so, as John continues:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Why would the Lord tell Peter that even though his whole body had been washed, his feet still needed washing?

You asked, "His blood washes us clean but does He wash and wash and wash or does His Grace make a way for our escape after being cleansed up?"

Yes, He does keep washing me. Again and again. My feet. I am walking in a mucky, filthy world. Sometimes I sin. But He is faithful and just and forgives. What makes you think I -- or anyone here who is a believer -- feels we have a 'ticket to sin'???? I deeply pray I am sinning -- offending God -- less and less as I get older. The Holy Spirit is working in me and on me and from what my kids, at least, tell me, the results are showing!

Please, please read the posts for what they are saying and not what you think/want them to say for the purposes of arguing.

Edit: just read your second post above, webdog. Thank you. Well stated.

 

Always OT, can you tell me where Paul committed such acts?

If you say that because you been born again then all your sins you ever will commit is already forgiven and you don't have to worry about them, and then go on to say that the saved do such things as adultery, then that Helen is a "ticket" to sin.

 

You answers do not describe the following scriptures.

Romans, chapter 6

1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
__________________

 

Web; why did you conveniently pass over all the other things that Paul said couldn't go to Heaven? There must be a reason and Helen amened it.

 

Bob, can you show me where righteousness in the OT is something different than righteousness in the NT? Are there different levels or dispensations? I don't see it...

To answer your question, Paul said the following...
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
Rom 7:21 So I discover this principle: when I want to do good, evil is with me.
Rom 7:22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God's law.
Rom 7:23 But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
Rom 7:24 What a wretched man I am (*note...not "was")! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,
Rom 8:2 because the Spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing will have the power to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!

 

...because all of the "other things" were being attributed back to the UNRIGHTEOUS...those who do NOT go to Heaven. Your focus is on the sins the unrightous commit, but God's focus (as ours should be) is in who are the righteous and who are the unrighteous.

Righteous = Heaven.
Unrighteous = Hell.

No exceptions, or added qualifications.

 

Bob, you answered your own post with your quote of Romans 6:2 -- we no longer LIVE in sin.

And I am eternally grateful for that.

But I sin. Again. I don't want to, and I am ashamed of it. But I sin.

We are no longer part of the unrighteous that Paul is talking about in the quote webdog gave you. They live in sin, as evidenced by the continuous repetition of the acts Paul enumerates. Those acts are the evidence of their hearts, which are unregenerate. In the same way, the acts of faith are the evidence of a regenerate heart.

In neither instance do the acts themselves either reap damnation or salvation. It is the condition of the heart. And, as Paul said, again in your quote, we do walk in newness of heart.

And a regenerate heart does not want to sin. Period. There is no 'ticket' involved. The desire is gone, the heart is changed.

How can you be missing that?

 

So, he wanted to be perfect and couldn't be. I don't see in there where he did any of those sins such as you keep quoting that David of old did, such as adultery.

 

So, if they are guilty of those things then they are unrighteous and therefore do not go to Heaven. Is that right?

 

Helen, you use scripture, we no longer sin, and turn right around and say you sin. I can't decipher that kind of explaination.

So, there is no such thing as sin for the saved. Is that what you are saying? No matter what they commit, it is not unrighteous, correct?

Hbr 6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

 

Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.

Because Scripture doesn't state what "evil" Paul committed doesn't mean he did NOT commit adultery. As a single man, I'm sure lust was an issue (adultery).

Rom 7:24 What a wretched man I am (*note...not "was"...not past tense)! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

 

Only if one were to believe in a works based salvation apart from Christ. If not, no, that is not right.

 

Bob, you are eqating the act with the person, or rather, the condtion of the person. Sin is unrighteousness in God's sight, but those "in Christ" are righteous in God's sight. Our sin still remains, but it has been forgiven and covered by Christ. If our past sin vanished once we are saved, we wouldn't have any sin for Christ's blood to cover.

 

Are you saying they can do such things but it don't count against them?

 

It still counts as sin, sure, but it doesn't lead to the second death.