Is this heresy?

Well, What does it lead to and if you die in adultery on your neighbors wife do you still go to Heaven.

I though Sin was death or at least led to death.

 

What does it lead to if you die lying to your boss, or eating too much at a church banquet, or cheating on your taxes, or spending more time on everything but God. or...

You get the picture. Sin is sin in God's eye. Disobedience is sin. Eve eating a piece of fruit set the world in motion to commit every other sin, including adultery.

The wages of sin is death...BUT...the gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. Those in Christ have eternal life, period. Those who don't reap the payment for their sin and not being in Christ. Nothing mentioned about certain sins one must avoid, or are unable to commit.

If any sin can keep a true believer from Heaven, this verse is a lie, or worse, means everyone, in Christ or not, pays the wages of their sin themselves...death.

 

Yea, I get the picture.
We need to change the message to the world. Accept Christ in your life and you are free to commit whatsoever sin you desire and it will not be counted against you.

That is the end result of what you and Helen are saying.

 

Why do you keep saying that? As Helen stated, we do NOT...nor have we EVER said we are "free to commit whatsoever sin you desire". That's a strawman. As Paul stated...
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.

Is there certain sin NOT evil? It seems like there is from your standpoint...

 

This could be "getting angry" or failing to do something he should of done.
You don't want to be labeled with saying "you are free to do what ever sin you want", but on the other hand you quote the above scripture which Paul wanted to be perfect, I have never read where he thought angry was the same as adultery, but you use it to make it equal with adultery by saying "sin is sin", so therefore if you do anything it will not count, because the above does not count.

That is the strawman, using something that in no way is equal with killing, stealing and making it the same.

 

Does the Bible classify "getting angry" as evil ...let alone sin? ("be angry but sin not") If being angry is evil, and Paul admits to "practicinig" evil...but it's not a sin...what is it, just "evil"? How is evil not sin? I'm getting really confused...

Let me get this straight. The "evil" sins are murder, adultery, etc...the "biggies" and the "non evil" sins are stealing, lying, etc.? Can you show where Scripture states that sin is broken up into evil and non evil? Remember, Paul stated "...I practice the evil that I do not want to do"

 

I never said that. Scripture says any thing that is not of faith is sin. Missing church for no reason could be sin. Being hateful with your wife could be sin. Not feeding the poor could be sin, etc.

The Big ones, try the Ten Commandments.

 

But you have said that. You have said there are sins, and there are "sins unto death". That's two classifications, is it not?

What is "evil"...and what "evil" could Paul practice? Are all sins evil?

BTW, being "hateful" with anyone (wife included) IS sin...not "could be sin".

 

Bob, I am assuming from your posts, that you are free of sin. You never sin.

Are you claiming that?

 

That is the paper duck that every one throws up for all to shoot at Helen. No, I sin daily but have and advocate with God but there are sins that a saved person can't do because the Grace of God will not let him. Saved people are kept by the power of God. When You accepted Christ you were made free from the Commandments because He put them in your heart and wrote them in your mind and the righteous of the Law is now fulfilled in you and you walk after the Spirit and not the flesh and the Spirit of Christ does not lead one to commit adultery etc. You also have the mind of Christ and the mind of Christ does not do those things either. No, outwardly in the flesh I still am corruptible but the inward man is stronger than the outward man and is able to keep him in subjection to not commit the unrighteous sins that we listed earlier.
Are you guilty of the sins I listed earlier that will keep a person out of Heaven, or are when you say you sin, it is sins such as you think you might have mistreated one of your children?

That is what everyone uses Helen and its not very becoming.

 

Bob, what is "evil"...and what "evil" could Paul practice? Are all sins evil?

 

BENZ,

Have we helped you in any way?

 

It is the opposite of Good and could mean many things Web. It could be adultery or it could be someone jumping on you physical.
Evil is of the devil so then all sins are evil. Doesn't mean all evil is breaking the Ten Commandments either.

 

You ever talk hateful to a child to get it to do right?

 

OK, I have something to go off of. If all sins are evil, then Paul was capable of commiting all sins, correct? You can't say all sins but....
Are we any different than Paul?

 

Web, yes it would be sin and could of been doubt or anything Web, but never was there anything ever mentioned of Paul committing such acts as we listed as being unrighteous.

For anyone to say that I said I never sinned is a paper duck for all to shoot at as if I am saying I am perfect. I am far from it but I have not nor do not the things listed in the list we listed as unrighteous sins.

And no, we are not different than Paul as far as sinning, and because he said he was cheif of all sinners is the way he felt, not that he actually was the cheif of all sinners. If he at that time was cheif of all sinners then he would be among those:


Hbr 6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

 

What I'm getting at is you mention David being able to murder and commit adultery because he was not indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but NT believers not being able to murder, commit adultery, etc. because they have the Holy Spirit. It's obvious that Paul was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and was still able to sin...any sin. Even though the text doesn't state what "evil" Paul participated in, it's a stretch to say it was not more heinous sins. As I mentioned earlier, lust is adultery, and Paul being single and travelling to pagan nations that worshipped Diana and partook of other sexually deviant behavior, it would be almost impossible for a single man not to lust. The text doesn't state either way, but it definately doesn't state he was unable to commit certain sin.

I never said that, I know you are not perfect.

You almost got me here. I never stated there were certain "unrighteous sins" all sins are "unrighteous sins". I just pointed out that 1Cor 6 was dealing with the unrighteous commiting those sins you pointed out as believers being unable to commit.

If Paul thought he was the chief of sinners, he must have thought that way for a reason. If he didn't think the sins he outlined in 1Cor 6 were sins he were able to commit, he would have never referred to himself as the "chief" amongs sinners (righteous and unrighteous alike). I don't think Heb 6 is saying what you think it is.

 

You have not the least idea what sin Paul was speaking of and I do not believe he would preach against such sins while guilty himself.

but you did state they were not going to Heaven.

I know what you think Heb. 6 is saying but I strongly disagree.

It ironic that you think Paul would say such people were not going to Heaven and still think he did those things and worse when Paul said he had a desire to depart for to be with Christ is far better. If he were guilty of those things he himself were not going to Heaven would make him the biggest hypocrit ever to be born.

Lord its just not enough that you hung on the cross and bore my sins so I can be saved from the wrath of God, you also got to cover whatever sin I commit until I die. If I like that car and decide to steal it, you got to cover that too Lord. If I like my neighbor's wife and decide to take her, you got me covered, right Lord? If I decide to slap my mommy and daddy around, you got that covered too Lord. Now ain't that great. The Lord saves us from our sins but we don't love Him enough to quit those things and still want Him to love us enough not to not turn on us, as He did Israel for disobeidence. He said obeidance is better than sacrifice but if we still don't obey, oh well, we covered anyway.

 

I say its a sin. The others will say no it is not. I know all about "drinking with the boys".

Like I said, I agree with your father.