Is this heresy?

DHK, you really need to answer this, so I will know if you believe adulterers will be in Heaven or NOT!

 

That's not what I believe nor implied. A righteous person CAN backslide and commit the same sins as an unrighteous person. Lot is a perfect example. David is a perfect example. Saul is a perfect example. Peter is a perfect example. All were justified, all were righteous.

Scripture doesn't say, but my personal opinion is yes. As I already pointed out, he was a single man travelling to ungodly nations that worshipped sex goddesses and practiced sexually deviant behaviour. The possibility to lust (commit adultery) was great in the Roman empire.

If he hated anyone at any time during his lifetime after accepting Christ, yes. We don't know.

 

You asked a sincere question Ben and I side with your father and gave you my answer. As far as DHK and I we have a discussion going on another thread on this very subject and I am not going to hijack your thread to answer DHK.by Bob.............and then he does? What's that tell you?

Bob, here is the doctrine you don't seem to understand, it's called JUSTIFICATION.
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

The gospel way of justification is by an imputed righteousness, mellei logizesthai - it shall be imputed; Paul uses a future verb, to signify the continuation of this mercy in the church, that as it is the same now so it will be while God has a church in the world, and there are any of the children of men to be justified; for there is a fountain opened that is inexhaustible Bob, that word is INEXHAUSTIBLE. Justification is not merely the formal act by which God pardons sins, and by which we become reconciled to him, but also the completion of the work - the treatment of us as righteous, and raising us up to a state of glory. Notice Bob, the latter part of that verse, and was raised again for our justification. His resurrection was a proof that his work was accepted by the Father. What he had done, in order that sinners might be saved, was approved. Our justification, therefore, became sure(.)

 

Maybe you need to read the entire thread before just picking out one person even though I know why you did it. But join right in, I heard all your arguments before.

Yes, it took His death and His resurrection to save us from our sins. It a shame we insist on keeping on doing the sins Paul said would keep us out of Heaven.

Being you believe His blood covered all our sins in the future, what if you blasphemed the Holy Ghost and the price already been paid. Hey man, ok?

Lets see now, whose doctrine is this anyway?

 

You added that to the text, as that is not what it says. I'll ask it again: 1Co 5:5 turn that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord.

How can an unrighteous adulterer have his spirit saved?

It's clear that the adulterer in chapter 5 was a believer.

 

All Spirits go back to God who give it.

 

I think I can see what is happening a little bit.

Bob, you are looking at sin from man's viewpoint -- how much a sin hurts another person. That is certainly a valid way of seeing it. In that sense, adultery, rape, murder and such are much worse sins than many others. Hurting someone else willfully and viciously, which both murder and rape entail, are certainly judged in our own legal system more severely than thinking bad thoughts!

So I can understand your almost violent reaction towards the idea that man who is a born again Christian could commit murder or rape or adultery. Loving one's neighbor as one loves oneself seems to rank more highly in our own minds, I think, than loving God. I am not trying to put anyone down; it's just that we tend to pay more attention to our behavior towards others than our behavior towards God many times.

But take a look at sin from God's point of view -- assuming that we can. Every sin is a violation of His character and a direct insult to Him. In that sense, a lustful thought is the same as adultery or rape. The effect on other people isn't the same, but the insult to God may well be.

When we see people who claim to be Christian, we see their outward life, and there IS a change. There always is, no questions asked. Like you, I have a very hard time imagining that a real Christian would purposely hurt another person in any way unless it was totally necessary (thinking of medical stuff, or spanking a child, etc.). But our treatment of others is only part of the big two, right? God knows the heart. And there we really do have to let it rest.

It very well may be that there are certain sins which are clear indications that a person is not saved. Adultery may be one of them. I cannot say that for sure and, actually, neither can you. But we can certainly both suspect that. But, if it is, then we must understand that it is not the act of adultery which sends a person to hell, but rather the unredeemed state of that person -- a state which produced the adultery.

Our actions, whatever they are, are the result of WHO we are. That is one of the primary messages of the New Testament. Thus there are some particularly violent and abusive actions which give us humans a pretty good idea about the condition of another human.

But again and forever, God is the judge and we dare not trespass into that territory. We have been expressly forbidden to cross that line.

 

That's not a good backup, Bob. That is from Ecclesiastes, which compares man's wisdom with God's. In that particular passage, Solomon is speaking from man's wisdom. He is speaking from the point of view of how the man 'under the sun' thinks.

 

I was quoting your theology. For an unsaved person adultery as well as a little white lie or anger or pride can keep him out of heaven. Unless he is as holy as God is holy he cannot enter into heaven, and no man is as holy as God. They need the righteousness of Jesus Christ. They need to be saved.
However, a Christian can commit adultery and still go to heaven.
A Christian can lie and still go to heaven.
What is the difference between a lie and adultery? Nothing!
They are both a transgression of the law in God's sight. Sin is sin in the sight of God. When a person is saved all sin is put under the blood to be remembered no more. His sins are forgiven--past present and future. God does not hold them against him any longer. They are covered by the blood.
This is not a teaching that it is a licence to sin. It is a teaching that we are eternally secure. Read Rom.8:38,39. There is nothing that can separate us from the love of Christ, and that includes the sin of adultery.

 

DHK, you really need to answer this, so I will know if you believe adulterers will be in Heaven or NOT!by Bob

Bob, I will answer your question, YES! I have been married for over 36 years. I never knew a girl sexually before I was married and the only one I ever "knew" since is my dear wife. Have I ever committed adultery? No, not physically in my eyes. I have friends who have, even know some preachers who have. Am I better then they? NO! Does God forgive us when we sin? 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The apostle John wrote this epistle to believers in general, with evident testimonies to Christ, for promoting their happiness and joy.

If you don't like this then you will have to take it up with the apostle John, of course if you keep trusting on your GOOD works we will have to talk to him for you.

 

I think that is one of the most intelligent answers on here. I too believe God is the judge of eternal life and certainly not me for who am I that would judge another man's servant. I am however the Pastor of a church of which I am responsible for keep it as much as humanly possible a group of people who have really given their lives to the Lord and not standing on the fence and worshipping two masters. I may make a mistake and misjudge someone in the future and maybe I already have, but I have the assurance that I did not cause that person to miss Heaven, if he or she is saved they will still make it to Heaven and if I made a mistake, God may punish me for it. I have to do the best I know how with the word I have to work with and that is what I do Helen. Thank you for such a well thought out answer.

 

So you give two completely different answers to the question on adulterers. How do I know when to believe and not believe?

 

Let me give you then how I work. I don't believe a person can get right in that man's condition as long as he is playing the Hypocrit. He must be put out where He can repent and then come back and give his life to Christ. That is exactly what that man did.

 

That is true for the unsaved person--any sin will.
That is not true for a genuinely saved person. It didn't keep David or Solomon out of heaven. I am not iinconsistent here. You are failing to understand the difference. God looks at all sin as the same. He doesn't condone any sin. All sin is abhorrent in his sight whether it be a lie or adultery. All sin keeps the unsaved out of heaven. That is why they need a Saviour.
However if you say adultery keeps a saved person out of heaven then you have built yourself a relgion of works and have intimated that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to cover all of our sins.

 

Why would He have to cleanse you of a sin or unrighteous that you have previouly stated was paid for on the Cross?

 

So, once again you affirm your belief that accepting Christ is a ticket to sin and not be counted against you, even adultery.

But of course you say it don't depend on sin at all whether you go to Heaven or not. Jesus didn't know tha BTW.

 

Read the full chapter. John is specifically addressing Christians. He is speaking of our fellowship, that is our relationship with Jesus Christ. He is not speaking of our salvation. Salvation is not the subject here. Our salvation is never even put in doubt. We need to come to the Lord on a daily basis and confess our sins that we may maintain a sweet fellowship with the Lord. Our salvation is not in doubt. But sin hinders our prayer life, our relationship, our fellowship with the Lord, not our salvation. If my daughter or son has disobeyed me, he has trouble communicating with me until he confesses what he has done and gets that burden off of his heart. So it is with God. Guilt is a terrible thing.

 

What does the Bible say:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
Not "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and keep the Ten Commandments and thou shalt be saved." That was a heresy dealt with in Acts 15.

 

Impossible to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in the sense He is talking without "loving Him".

If you "love me" You will keep my Commandments.

Why you spend so much time trying to justify sin DHK?

 

I don't justify sin; in fact I do the opposite. I take God's point of view and hate all sin--lying just as much as adultery. But you don't. In fact your view condones lying while condemng adultery? So who is justifying sin?
I spend time in this thread because it seems that you have a warped view of salvation. Is the blood of Jesus Christ sufficient enough to cover all of our sins or not? If it is all-sufficient, why must one "work" by confessing a sin in order to get to heaven. Your view of salvation is not the Biblcal view of salvation. It is a works based salvation. It is not salvation by grace through faith. You must work your way to heaven by confessing sin. That is your work; your part to get to heaven. It is an insult, a slap in the face of Jesus to the work that he did on the cross.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Why are adding to the Word of God?