Is this heresy?

That Sir, is a false statement.

No Sir, my veiw is to cease to do evil and learn to do good. amen,

 

Bob, What you are preaching is dangerous. You say you are a pastor. I know a pastor in VA. that believes just like you do. One of his young fellows come into the church house one time with his shoes untied he told him that is something the world does as a sign of rebellion and no rebel will go to Heaven so that means you are not saved. I was there one timw and a young fellow came to the alter for Salvation during a revival meeting. We all rejoiced in his Salvation except the pastor. The statement he made was, "wait a year and then we will see if he got the real thing." NONE of his young can live up to his expectations. As soon as they sin or do something he thinks is wrong, they are not saved. He has some of the young people getting "saved" time after time after time. Do you know the result of that foolishness? HE LOST HIS YOUNG PEOPLE! He told them if they are saved they don't have to sin. If they do it is because they are not saved.
I am a BAPTIST preacher. I believe in the security of the believer. I believe the Blood of Christ will SAVE us and KEEP us. Does that mean we have what you call a "license to sin?" NO a thousand times NO. We shoule love the Lord more every day and we should HATE sin, however it doesn't mean we can't sin. Every day I live and the more I study the further it seems I am from profection. I realize we need to grow in Grace but the closer to Christ I get the more vile it seems I am.

 

Shiloh, it get pretty hostile on here but we don't have those kind of times in our church. I would not take a man who had the smell of acohol on him. Does that make me a bad Pastor. I don't think so but there are some who would take anybody. I am not one of them. When I gave my life to the Lord. I said "Lord, I give it all, If its your will that I die natural so, then let it be, but save my dying soul."

You are throwing up a paper duck when you say I don't think you can sin for I know we sin. Also, It is not my righteous that keeps me but the Grace of God. Which He made me a promise, that His Grace is sufficient to keep me from temptations. I believe how ever strong the temptations gets the Lord's Grace just gets that much stronger. Sorry, but I believe in a Stong God that is stronger than the Devil. I believe if the Devil can get one to sin, he will get us all.

 

DHK said: "I don't justify sin; in fact I do the opposite. I take God's point of view and hate all sin--lying just as much as adultery. But you don't. In fact your view condones lying while condemng adultery? So who is justifying sin?"

B.Bob said: "That Sir, is a false statement."

DHK: No it isn't a false statement. It is very true. You say that sins like adultery will keep even the believer out of heaven, but (justifiable) sins like lies, pride, evil thoughts, etc. won't keep a believer out of heaven. They are little sins. They are "justified." You may not have used the word "justified," but you have taught it. You have condoned it by your thelogy. Bad sins are condemned and littles sins are condoned. That is your theology. You justify sin. You cannot perceive of a holy God that hates ALL sin.

DHK said "I spend time in this thread because it seems that you have a warped view of salvation. Is the blood of Jesus Christ sufficient enough to cover all of our sins or not? If it is all-sufficient, why must one "work" by confessing a sin in order to get to heaven. Your view of salvation is not the Biblcal view of salvation. It is a works based salvation. It is not salvation by grace through faith. You must work your way to heaven by confessing sin. That is your work; your part to get to heaven. It is an insult, a slap in the face of Jesus to the work that he did on the cross.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Why are adding to the Word of God?"

B.Bob said: "No Sir, my veiw is to cease to do evil and learn to do good. amen,"

DHK replies: That is the same view of the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Mormons, the SDA's, the J.W's, the Shintoists, the Taoists, the Jainists, and so many others.
They all want to cease from doing evil and learn to do good. That is the object of most of the world religions.
But that is not what Biblical salvation. Biblical salvation is not a relgion of works, which you have made it out to be. It is fully trusting in the shed blood of Christ to cover and forgive all of our sins: past, present, and future.

 

That is false also, I never said no such thing.

I don't know about the Buddhists and the others but I do know that it is scripture.

Tts 3:14And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Psa 34:14Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.

 

That's not what 1 Cor. 5:5 says, though. The person is obviously a believer..."his spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord."

 

Let me give you then how I work. I don't believe a person can get right in that man's condition as long as he is playing the Hypocrit. He must be put out where He can repent and then come back and give his life to Christ. That is exactly what that man did.__________________

 

You didn't have to come out and say it in the same words that I said it. I wasn't quoting you verbatim. You teach it. Your theology teaches it. You have two categories of sins. You have admitted it to be so. One category denies one entrance to heaven and the other does not. Thus one category of sin is "justifiable," and the other is not. Whether you have said it in those words or not is irrelevant. That is what you teach.

 

No, the ones you call justifiable have to have an advocate with God. But I believe in the strength of His Grace. Apparently you don't.

I would rather you not say things I didn't say. Someone will pick up on it and take it as my words of which it is not.

 

We agreed up until the bold. You don't know that he hasn't given his life to Christ. 1 Cor. 5:5 does speak of putting the backslider out of fellowship, but the text also insinuates the backslider is a believer.

Wow Bob, 7000 posts!

 

Can you give any Scripture where God promises grace to keep us sinless?
I believe in the grace of God that he provided at the cross of calvary when he shed his blood to atone for ALL of our sins, not just some of them. Apparently you don't.

 

1 Corth. 1:

4: I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5: That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6: Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

I am blameless right now in my standing before Christ because I am clothed in His righteousness, and all my sins are forgiven. It is funny that you should use this passage at the beginning of the first epistle to the Corinthians, right before Paul begins to correct them for all the abuses and sins that they had committed. Every chapter is full of carnal things that they had done. In chapter three he says that he could not speak unto them as spiritual but unto carnal for they were carnal. Sin after sin is listed. Some of the very sins that you say would prevent a person from going to heaven. And yet Paul says, in spite of all of these sins (including a denial of the resurrection) they would be found blameless. Amazing isn't it. That immoral man could in 1Cor.5 could have died before he had a chance of repenting, but he was still called a brother, and he still would have gone to heaven. Paul declares him blameless. This totally defeats your argument.

 

Scripture says to entreat them you put away from you as a brother for you might by love persuade them to repent.

I glad you are blameless, you said you were a sinner. Which is it?


1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

Where does Scripture say that "blameless" is the same as "sinless"?

Ed

 

Sometimes you have to use your head for something other than to wear a hat.

Luke.1.6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless

1Thess.2.10 You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our behavior to you believers;

Heb.7.26 For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens.


What you know scriptures.

 

Their standing (like mine) was righteous before God. Their standing before God was also blameless before God. Inasmuch as was humanly possible they walked in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 2:10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:
--What is so difficult about this verse here. Paul is giving his testimony (concerning both himself and Timothy), how they endeavored to behave holy, just, and blameless before them. They were blameless, not before God, but before men. They were not sinless. It doesn't say that. The meaning is that they acted in such a way that others could not blame them for any unjust act.
The word is used the same way in Timothy:
"A bishop must first be found blameless. It is speaking of blameless before man. It refers to reputation before man. Paul was speaking of their reputation, not their standing before God.

This verse speaks of Christ. Are you claiming to be Him??

I don't use them out of context.

 

Since I believe, unless I am mistaken, you are one who claims to cite and quote from the KJV, I took the liberty of replacing to verses you had quoted with the actual wording of the KJV, as I was not able to find this wording in my concordance. I do know you quoted Heb. 7:26 from the ESV, and I have no problem with that, or citing from any version, for that matter, and in fact, usually use the NKJV, myself, but I still would like to know what version I Thess. 2:10 is from, as I was not able to find this wording in the twenty something plus I have access to, both in paper copy and on line, with the twenty that are found there of "Bible Gateway". BTW, the very word "how" in I Thess. 2:10, shows that this 'blamelessness' (Is 'b' even a word?) was not 'absolute' in its extent.

But since you wrote "What you know scriptures.", may I quote a couple more, and make one or two observations.

The word "sinless" does not occur in the KJV, RV or ASV, as far as I am able to ascertain. The word "blameless" occurs some 15 times. I have no (other than Strong's) complete concordances beyond that, so do not know about any other versions. I do know that as far as I know, only one person was said to be "without sin", meaning entirely without, although other individuals are said not to have sinned in various things they did, such as Job, for one example.

And I am aware of what another said about being "blameless", and I would suppose his own view of "sinless" is appropriate, as well, being as the Holy Spirit included it in Scripture.

Note please, that the one who said he was "blameless" as concerning the law, described himself as the chief of sinners, and he never said that in the past tense, either. "am chief..." is a far cry from "was chief...", but now I don't do it any more, as has been somehow portrayed on the pages of some of these forums.

So now I will make this, as a statement.

"Blameless" does not equal "sinless", for even the 'priests' who 'defiled' the Sabbath by serving on the Sabbath, and were considered "blameless" were not considered to be "sinless" else there would have been no need for the priest to first make an offering for his own sins, before he could then present the offering for all Israel. I desire to be considered as blameless, but it would take a denial of I John, not to mention other Scripture, to ever (or to have ever done so) consider myself "sinless" by any stretch! And I suspect that is true for all, else God is lying in I John, and I believe Scripture says 'God cannot lie'!

(Trying to use my head for something besides a 'hat-rack'!)

Ed

 

benz, Some of what is posted here, and what your father says (regardless of whoever's good intentions), may or may not be heresy, but it is certainly misguided, to say the least.

Keep on standing, therefore, 'in this grace'!

Amen!

Ed

 

Yes, Benz, they use this scripture all the time where Paul felt not worthy to be child of God but only by His Grace, but no where do they show or can they show Paul guilty of such acts as adultery, stealing, killing, dishonoring father and mother. Benz, if you want to sin, then listen to these fellows for they are teaching a way for the saved to sin and not be held accountable.

Well benz, they were not able to tear down this scripture so they had to leave it alone where these two were righteous and the righteous are going to Heaven and these two kept the Commandments, and ordinances of the Lord blameless. BTW, this was John the Baptist's mother and father. John came filled with the Holy Ghost before he was ever born.

DHK; says over and over you can't keep the Commandments but here he says he does keep the Commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. I notice he added the words (as humanly possible).

If anyone teaches you benz, that the saved commit adultery, just move on for they know not what they say.

If its not to quit sinning and believe to be saved then you should be a Calvinist for they believe that you were prechosen and that way God will do it all for you. Jesus said if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. I like to keep it simple and not confuse people. You see benz, they have to take you around and around to bring on confusion and then tell you if you committ adultery, not to worry, for you will still go to Heaven. In reality, the scriptures says no adulterers will go to Heaven, Jesus said if you die in your sins you can't go to Heaven. Simple isn't it? Listen to your father, he has a son to lose so he is telling you the truth. These fellows don't even know you and they will move on after this discussion but your father will still be there praying for you and asking God to show you the way.