Is this typical for todays missionaries?

[Tom Bryant]

I've been around both independent and sbc missionaries for all of my ministry (30 years) I've only met one who was not honest. He was taken care of by other missionaries and pastors folowing Matthew 18.

The missionaries we have supported have been very much like John who has faithfully preached the gospel in a foreign culture (and northern Maine is a foreign culture :laugh: )

I agree with the others, if you know the man and what he is allegedly doing, you are under an obligation to confront the man FIRST (even before coming here) and then go the next step if he is in the wrong.

Your explanation of the missionary has changed from the 1st post where you said "I was told" to now that you know him. You're asking us to be the Acme Judgment Company on a man we don't know and after getting only one side.

 

[KJVkid]

You're asking us to be the Acme Judgment Company on a man we don't know and after getting only one side.

I don't recall asking anybody to "judge" anybody. I would like to know if this is a wide spread issue. I was "told" about this from a pastor that supports this fellow. I also know this fellow personally. There are a number of pastors that know about this and their reply is that as long as he is making an attempt to start churches so what how much he is making. Said enough!

 

[Bro. James]

I want a Learjet too

"We seldom get so confused in our thinking that we cannot see clearly the other fellow's duty"--paraphrased from the anonymous.

Much is expected from whom much is given--paraphrased scripture.

We(children of God) must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ--paraphrased scripture.

We may not arrive in a Learjet. So what?

Preach the Word--let the Lord be the judge.

Selah,

Bro. James

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[KJVkid]

We may not arrive in a Learjet. So what?

Just what I thought!

 

[John of Japan]

We may not arrive in a Learjet. So what?

Just what I thought!

You'll always find me arriving in the cheapest seat on the airplane during the cheapest time of the year--after I drive to the airport in my 10-year-old used car after closing the door on our rented home! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

You'll always find me arriving in the cheapest seat on the airplane during the cheapest time of the year--after I drive to the airport in my 10-year-old used car after closing the door on our rented home! :smilewinkgrin:

Are you stealing my biography again ? Although my used car is only eight years old. For the first time in my life I am driving a car made in the decade I am driving it.

 

[John of Japan]

Are you stealing my biography again ? Although my used car is only eight years old. For the first time in my life I am driving a car made in the decade I am driving it.

Spendthrift! :laugh:

 

[bapmom]

Hi! It's me again! lol

Good to see you all again, btw.




KJVkid,

sir, most missionaries these days (my husband and I included) find that often when someone asks us how much support we need to raise that the person asking is looking for something to be upset about. This might not be true in your case, but it IS true in many other cases. So I can see why missionaries might react as if they are offended when you ask that question.

My husband and I will be raising what looks like a substantial amount of money to get to the field. But when you look at which field we are going to (Japan) and the fact that we have six kids, we are actually going to be living on a shoestring budget.

And really, you did ask for a judgement call here - whether or not this is typical or appropriate for a missionary requires us to make a judgement. We (nor you, really) know all the details. Perhaps the plane was donated to him......perhaps he got it dirt-cheap from some auction or something......maybe in reality it saves him money to fly himself in his own plane rather than to drive all that way.

Owning a farm that's worth alot of money - you're including land prices of today - how do you know when or how he got his land? Is it a family farm that he inherited?

As for church planting.....he planted a church....so he's a church planter. Where do we get the idea that it's a good thing for a pastor to start a church, stay there for (say) two years, and then up and leave? Why not start a church, grow it, develop the people, train good men to go out and start other churches other places, raise good young people who go out and become valued Christian men and women in other churches?

Thing is, you seem to be trying to gather ammo against this man, rally people to your side against him. And that's why he is being defended here. You need to go directly to him (as others have said) and not confront, but *ask* him about these things. Tell him your concerns. If he refuses to listen to you then that's on him. If you refuse to go to him because you *assume* he won't listen, then that's on you.

 

[KJVkid]

Bapmom.................you are not even close to being right.

 

[bapmom]

Bapmom.................you are not even close to being right.

could you be a bit more specific there? what am I not right about? alot of my post was my own personal experience......:tonofbricks:

 

[KJVkid]

You are not right about this particular "missionary." First let me explain something. I have been around a few years. I have started a number of Ind. Baptist churches. I started this thread kinda with tongue in cheek. I know this fellow real well. My contention is with these fellows that run all over the country getting support from little churches (some not even able to support their own pastor full time) and end up rich. A man that makes $100,000.00 a year and now wants churches to pay off his $90,000.00 airplane. By the way which is a business is taking advandage of Gods people! There is no accountability. If you folks would come to my church WITH your 6 kids......don't let your kids at home, going to where you folks are going we probably help you out. However you would get up set with me.......and just telling me that you have 40% of your support won't cut it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

We must run in different circles Bro KJVkid. I have never met a missionary who gets upset when a possible supporting pastor asks how much support they are trying to raise and when I was on the other side and was heading a missions committee I never had a missionary get upset when I asked them.

Maybe you should look at a new batch of possible missionaries .

 

[KJVkid]

C4K......you might be right. I find it hard to believe you never had a missionary get upset when you came right out and asked them how much support they have right now. I have hade a lot tell me the % level they are up to but as I said that doesn't tell me anything. As the pastor I am responsible to my people and if that offends someone so be it.

 

[bapmom]

We wouldn't get upset with you, sir, if you are asking in your capacity as pastor of the church. That's different.

I was not referring to the pastor. The supporting pastor needs to know often.

I'm sorry that you have had this experience with this particular man. I don't know of any missionaries who are getting rich off their support, so I am a little incredulous.

This doesn't mean I don't believe you.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I am shocked at the response of those missionaries Bro KJV.

I would be worried if a pastor or missions director didn't ask me how much support I am raising and how much I have. That's all comes with the territory.

 

[chariot]

Is this typical for todays missionaries?
I was told of a home (USA) missionary that has 200 supporting churches, three airplanes and owns a farm worth a half million. He is a "church planter" missionary. In 11 years he "planted" one (1) church. Is this typical or is something wrong here? Honest opinion.
Reply With Quote

I want to defend that person that planted that ONE church. First God blessed that man with the land, planes, salary, backup of 200 churches, and the gift of time for him to do this job as a project for the LORD. Every one is groaining about his income of $90K. He is using it to fly rather then drive or horse back and forth to the church being planted. If he used his small jet as an example to travel--the fuel eats up his income, as well as the insurance, and payments of the airplane and it maintenace of about $75 a minute of fly time. Lets say he flies two hours. To warm up the plane plus taxi down runway with load and supplies and contracts, etc. (120 minutes times $75=$9,000) That is a multiplied by 12 months of one run a month is $108,000 to do God's ministry. It could be in Mexico or in Canada! What matter is that He got the job done.
the Collection of the 200 memebers of $1.00 each sunday is what ? It is only $10, 400. It is peanuts.
I feel I have been called to missions but look what it takes for a person to go. No wonder we can not get more churches planted. I know that there is and are folks awaiting NOW for a pastor and a church in their area. Can you do it? All I here are grumblings of how fortunate folks are trying to overcome that VOTE upon meeting to get it going. I aplaude that man. It is a Holy Spirit gift of what I hear from this board that this man is using his talent to jump over others hindering what God wants in his commission. Love in Jesus, Paco

 

[KJVkid]

Huh.........excuse me, he has three airplanes. That would take a lot of peanuts. I don't think he needs all the peanuts to go where the church is. In fact he could push his airplanes to the church building....without starting them, saving all those peanuts. :laugh: Now he is helping a fellow start another church and he does fly there. It is somewhere around 40 miles from his church. I'v said all I'm going to say about this. Gotta love those peanuts in the offering.:BangHead:

 

[pops]

All missionary's that I am aware of work through a sending organization. All monies are completely visible that means all current income, expected monthly support in comparison with current support. All monies are received and disbursed by the sending organization.
I have never met a single missionary that was on the 'plus' side.
A article in the current issue of Christianity Today 'Pinching Pennies' talks to this very issue and specifically in Europe that missionaries have lost 45% of their buying power because of the fall in the value of the dollar since 2002.

This issue also mentions money takers like Benny Hinn.

so is it KJVdad that we are talking about? - I am always mystified by posts that are not totally upfront from the get go and this tongue in cheek stuff what does that mean - that you can sit back and be smug about peoples attempt to help?

 

[KJVkid]

All missionary's that I am aware of work through a sending organization. All monies are completely visible that means all current income, expected monthly support in comparison with current support. All monies are received and disbursed by the sending organization.
I have never met a single missionary that was on the 'plus' side. by POPS

Forgive me for adding another comment. First of all I agree most missionaries are seriously under supported!

Secondly, there are a lot of Ind. Bapt. missionaries that are not under the umbrella of a mission board.

Thirdly, and this might open a new can of worms.......I know of two mission boards that take money from their missionaries. The first for "office expences" the other church has an in house mission board where their missionaries are expected to tithe to the church.

 

[bapmom]

For the most part I have no problem with a mission board that gets a tiny percentage of support from the missionaries they serve. They do alot of work for us and just like the missionaries, "the servant is worthy of his hire." Our mission board is run for the most part by volunteers, hired employees of the church that runs it, and by staff who have gone on deputation themselves and gained support just like the missionaries do.

I'm not sure where this thread is headed though.........are we still talking about this particular missionary? One thing I think 'chariot' missed is the fact that this man is here in the States, in a highly populated area. He's not in the Brazilian jungle where a plane would be a logical mode of transportation. But I sort of don't understand the point of continuing the discussion about him since we can't do anything about it and we have no control over him, his ministry or anyone he's connected to.

By the way, I know many IFB missionaries who are not under a mission board and are doing an awesome job.