is Tithing for today?

[Tom Butler]

I understand the argument that Jesus was speaking in an Old Testament setting. I'm not sure I buy that argument. But here is Jesus (Luke 11:44) who is endorsing the principle of the tithe. "You should do this," Jesus said.

Jesus said a lot of things while He was here. Do we have his followers coming behind him (after his ascension), saying, okay, it's different now. We're under grace, so what He said back then doesn't apply anymore. So you don't have to tithe any more.

I'm looking for help here. When are we told that Jesus' endorsement of the tithe doesn't apply any more? And again, I ask, how do you arrive at what proportion of your income to give?

 

[webdog]

I understand the argument that Jesus was speaking in an Old Testament setting. I'm not sure I buy that argument. But here is Jesus (Luke 11:44) who is endorsing the principle of the tithe. "You should do this," Jesus said.

Jesus said a lot of things while He was here. Do we have his followers coming behind him (after his ascension), saying, okay, it's different now. We're under grace, so what He said back then doesn't apply anymore. So you don't have to tithe any more.

I'm looking for help here. When are we told that Jesus' endorsement of the tithe doesn't apply any more? And again, I ask, how do you arrive at what proportion of your income to give?

All Scripture is Jesus' inspired Words. What does Paul say about giving?

Why don't you buy the context of Jesus speaking to Pharisees? It's pretty clear.

 

[JamesL]

I understand the argument that Jesus was speaking in an Old Testament setting. I'm not sure I buy that argument. But here is Jesus (Luke 11:44) who is endorsing the principle of the tithe. "You should do this," Jesus said.

Jesus said a lot of things while He was here. Do we have his followers coming behind him (after his ascension), saying, okay, it's different now. We're under grace, so what He said back then doesn't apply anymore. So you don't have to tithe any more.

I'm looking for help here. When are we told that Jesus' endorsement of the tithe doesn't apply any more? And again, I ask, how do you arrive at what proportion of your income to give?

Jesus came to fulfill the law, and abolished with His death. That's the delineation. The New Testament didn't begin until He died. And if a "tithe" isn't going to the Levites, it's illegitimate.

As for me, I do not give proportionally. I give as God tells me. Sometimes I give before my bills get paid, sometimes after. Sometimes I give nothing, and sometimes half a week's earnings. Sometimes I put it in the offering basket, and sometimes simply to a family in need.

I've purchased a car for a family once, paid someone's utility bills, or simply handed someone a few hundred dollars.

Conversely, I've accepted help from the church when I had nothing, people have given me a few hundred dollars when I was in serious need, given me food when we had nothing to eat.

It can go both ways when led by the Spirit.


I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. (Philippians 4:11-14)

 

[Tom Butler]

I understand the "tithing is Old Testament" argument. And, that Jesus ministry was still in OT times, before the New Covenant.

But, what about Matthew 5. Particularly, those verses where Jesus said, "You've heard it said.....but I say to you." Jesus was already changing things. His teaching was immediately valid, seems to me, not three years later. Yet, he did not teach a change in the tithe mandate. In fact, he reinforced it.

 

[OldRegular]

I understand the "tithing is Old Testament" argument. And, that Jesus ministry was still in OT times, before the New Covenant.

But, what about Matthew 5. Particularly, those verses where Jesus said, "You've heard it said.....but I say to you." Jesus was already changing things. His teaching was immediately valid, seems to me, not three years later. Yet, he did not teach a change in the tithe mandate. In fact, he reinforced it.

The tithe was for the tribe of Levi, a tenth of the tithe went to the priesthood. We have neither in the Baptist Church.

 

[percho]

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mark 1:14

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Tim 4:1


Will there be the tithe?

 

[RLBosley]

Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. - 2Co 9:7 NASB

We give as we have purposed in our heart, not from compulsion. This seems to be pretty definitive regarding the tithe IMO.

 

[prophet]

I understand the "tithing is Old Testament" argument. And, that Jesus ministry was still in OT times, before the New Covenant.

But, what about Matthew 5. Particularly, those verses where Jesus said, "You've heard it said.....but I say to you." Jesus was already changing things. His teaching was immediately valid, seems to me, not three years later. Yet, he did not teach a change in the tithe mandate. In fact, he reinforced it.

Hey Tom, read Hebrews 7, and the whole book of Galatians, and then come back and comment...
You'll have your answer.

 

[AresMan]

No. For the same reason circumcision isn't.

And animal sacrifices. :thumbsup:

 

[AresMan]

Let's look at Luke 11:44

Isn't Jesus endorsing tithing in this passage? If he is, when did he say we don't have to any more?

I'm sorta curious, too. Are there any of you who don't believe the tithe is a Biblical mandate, yet tithe anyway? If so, explain what influenced your decision.

I''m assuming that all of us agree that some sort of proportional giving is appropriate. How do you arrive at the proportion you give? Does it vary for any reason? Does it come out of your income first, or later, if there's anything left over?

Here are the parts you SHOULD have bolded:

Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

 

[AresMan]

I understand the argument that Jesus was speaking in an Old Testament setting. I'm not sure I buy that argument.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

We are not covenantally under Moses' seat; else, we would be under the Levitical priesthood. Jesus is priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. We are under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.

But here is Jesus (Luke 11:44) who is endorsing the principle of the tithe. "You should do this," Jesus said.

Jesus is not endorsing any "principle" of a tithe. He is "endorsing" the Levitical LAW of tithes, and the "mint, rue, and all other kinds of garden herbs" is an important phrase to keep your mind from getting clouded and thinking that there's really some kind of phantom idea in the Bible about a tithe on wages or monetary income. There simple is NO such thing!

Jesus said a lot of things while He was here. Do we have his followers coming behind him (after his ascension), saying, okay, it's different now. We're under grace, so what He said back then doesn't apply anymore. So you don't have to tithe any more.

We have to be diligent to study the Scriptures so we understand, based on context and progressive revelation what is Old Covenant and what is New Covenant. I would say that there was a "transition period" between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant from Jesus' earthly ministry until the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70.

First of all, studying the actual Mosaic law helps us to know what are eternal moral principles and what are ceremonial and judicial statutes that were intended to be types that were fulfilled in Christ.

It took awhile for the apostles even after the resurrection to understand what changed covenantally based upon the death and resurrection of Christ. God "had to" give Peter a vision three times for him to understand that the Gentiles were now not "unclean."

If you compare Matthew 23:1-3,23 with Hebrews 7:5,12,18-19 you will see that there is indeed a covenantal difference! Matthew 23 pertains to the Levitical priesthood. Hebrews 7 shows that the Melchizedek priesthood succeeded the Levitical priesthood.

I'm looking for help here. When are we told that Jesus' endorsement of the tithe doesn't apply any more? And again, I ask, how do you arrive at what proportion of your income to give?

The best way to answer your question is to read the tithe laws carefully:

Genesis 14; 28:10-22
Leviticus 27:30-34
Numbers 18
Deuteronomy 12; 14; 26:12-19
2 Chronicles 31
Nehemiah 10:38-39; 13:1-14

Understand exactly WHAT the tithes were, not your modern presuppositions about a religious "tax" on wages or monetary income. Understand the concept of Mosaic Law and the Levitical priesthood and what purpose those served.

Then study the book of Hebrews, especially chapter 7. It shows conclusively that the tithes were abolished.

We give freely, cheerfully, and abundantly to support the ministry of the church, but this has NOTHING to do with the tithes, and the tithes had nothing to do with earned income. Just because the instructions to the church in the New Covenant do not tell you how much you must give as a hard-and-fast rule does not mean we have to feel lost. Just give what you can and how you feel the Spirit lead, and especially look for needs that need to be met and strive to fulfill them.

If you need more than this, maybe I can recommend [cough] my book [cough] for 140,000 words that could possibly answer and question you may have.

 

[RLBosley]

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

We are not covenantally under Moses' seat; else, we would be under the Levitical priesthood. Jesus is priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. We are under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.

Jesus is not endorsing any "principle" of a tithe. He is "endorsing" the Levitical LAW of tithes, and the "mint, rue, and all other kinds of garden herbs" is an important phrase to keep your mind from getting clouded and thinking that there's really some kind of phantom idea in the Bible about a tithe on wages or monetary income. There simple is NO such thing!

We have to be diligent to study the Scriptures so we understand, based on context and progressive revelation what is Old Covenant and what is New Covenant. I would say that there was a "transition period" between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant from Jesus' earthly ministry until the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70.

First of all, studying the actual Mosaic law helps us to know what are eternal moral principles and what are ceremonial and judicial statutes that were intended to be types that were fulfilled in Christ.

It took awhile for the apostles even after the resurrection to understand what changed covenantally based upon the death and resurrection of Christ. God "had to" give Peter a vision three times for him to understand that the Gentiles were now not "unclean."

If you compare Matthew 23:1-3,23 with Hebrews 7:5,12,18-19 you will see that there is indeed a covenantal difference! Matthew 23 pertains to the Levitical priesthood. Hebrews 7 shows that the Melchizedek priesthood succeeded the Levitical priesthood.

The best way to answer your question is to read the tithe laws carefully:

Genesis 14; 28:10-22
Leviticus 27:30-34
Numbers 18
Deuteronomy 12; 14; 26:12-19
2 Chronicles 31
Nehemiah 10:38-39; 13:1-14

Understand exactly WHAT the tithes were, not your modern presuppositions about a religious "tax" on wages or monetary income. Understand the concept of Mosaic Law and the Levitical priesthood and what purpose those served.

Then study the book of Hebrews, especially chapter 7. It shows conclusively that the tithes were abolished.

We give freely, cheerfully, and abundantly to support the ministry of the church, but this has NOTHING to do with the tithes, and the tithes had nothing to do with earned income. Just because the instructions to the church in the New Covenant do not tell you how much you must give as a hard-and-fast rule does not mean we have to feel lost. Just give what you can and how you feel the Spirit lead, and especially look for needs that need to be met and strive to fulfill them.

If you need more than this, maybe I can recommend [cough] my book [cough] for 140,000 words that could possibly answer and question you may have.

:thumbsup: Great post.

 

[AresMan]

I understand the "tithing is Old Testament" argument. And, that Jesus ministry was still in OT times, before the New Covenant.

Answering this would get into my eschatology, but I believe that the 70th week of Daniel started at Jesus' baptism. Jesus "confirmed the covenant with the many for one week" to Israel. The first half of that week was Jesus' earthly ministry for 3 1/2 years. Then, "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease" through His death. The other 3 1/2 years was still the extension of the covenant to Israel from His resurrection until the conversion of Paul and Cornelius when the floodgates of the gospel were opened to the Gentiles.

During Jesus' earthly ministry He did indeed teach obedience to the Old Covenant where applicable, but He also explained it and prepared the way for the New Covenant.

But, what about Matthew 5. Particularly, those verses where Jesus said, "You've heard it said.....but I say to you." Jesus was already changing things. His teaching was immediately valid, seems to me, not three years later. Yet, he did not teach a change in the tithe mandate. In fact, he reinforced it.

When Jesus said "you have heart that it was said...but I say to you" He wasn't just "adding" to the Mosaic Law, He was explaining the intention of the Law (especially the parts that concern justice, truth, and equity) that it wasn't limited to the outward expressions, but were also for the inward man. In other words, He exposed the misconceptions of the day that the Law was primarily outward and, therefore, it was possible to keep the whole law. Jesus proved that everyone was guilty. Even the apostle Paul came to grips with this fact when he said "Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7) There is NO escape for ANYONE with "Thou shalt not covet"!

It is true that in the words of Jesus during His earthly ministry He never "rescinded" the tithing mandate. What are we to make of that? Well, either we should do what the Pharisees did and tithe "of mint, anise, cumin, dill, rue, and all manner of garden herbs," and practice the whole Levitical system complete with Levites and priests with a Sabbatical cycle that includes the year of Jubilee, OR we try to be as good systematic theologians as we can be and compare Matthew 23:1-3,23 and Hebres 7:5,12,18-19 and understand the type-fulfillment of Old and New Covenant and Aaronic/Levitical and Melchizedek orders of priesthood, all centered on the person and work of Jesus Christ.