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Is torturing prisoners Biblical?

kubel

New Member
I think there are examples of what we might call in modern society "excessive force" or "cruel and unusual treatment" in the Bible- but torture isn't even defined theologically, much less condoned (or even condemned for that matter). At least I can't think of any specific examples that would be useful in this case.

Not not every deed is mentioned in the Bible. Not everything is given the label "right" or "wrong". I believe God has given each believer the ability to discern between right and wrong through the aid of Biblical examples and the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately two believers still come to different conclusions.

Forgive me for including modern politics and history into this thread (I know it was clearly not the intent of the OP), but some would argue it would be wrong for a nation to break a treaty (Geneva Convention) that it signed, or to make up a legal classification to get around the definition of POW, and the rights such a person has under the treaty. It's basically a lie, perhaps deceit at the very best. I'm sure we can find plenty of Biblical examples where this is clearly condemned.

Some would argue that the enemy is not following this treaty, therefor we shouldn't as well. But this is like eye-for-an-eye, something Jesus condemned.

Also, some people would argue hypocrisy, which is clearly condemned in the Bible. Example: The Germans (or more precisely, the Nazi Gestapo, among other groups) conducted torture under the classification "Verschärfte Vernehmung" (or "enhanced interrogation", the same term the US uses today). After WWII, the methods of enhanced interrogation were classified as "war crimes", and many were judged by the victorious allies (US) for these crimes.

We each are given the ability to discern between right and wrong. I believe torture is wrong, no matter how guilty or evil the person receiving such torture is, no matter their classification as an enemy combatant or a prisoner of war. Of course, this is only my opinion.
 

righteousdude2

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What Say You About God?

donnA said:
Where in scripture do we see when it's alright to suspend doing right? Where doe it say in scripture it's alright to torture because others torture?
No laws?
Geneva convention
How often did God tell Israel to completely destroy and kill every living thing in the city they conquered? What if we just followed God's old ways, and completely obliterated every living thing in Iraq [men, women, children[ pets, livestock, etc.]?

What say you Donna?
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Alcott said:
Is it evil to take someone by force to where they don't want to go and force them stay there for many years? If so, by that reasoning, sentencing a criminal to prison is unscriptural.
Apples and oranges

peace to you:praying:
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
righteousdude2 said:
How often did God tell Israel to completely destroy and kill every living thing in the city they conquered? What if we just followed God's old ways, and completely obliterated every living thing in Iraq [men, women, children[ pets, livestock, etc.]?
Because we are not the nation of Israel, and the Iraqi are not the Amorites or Caananites, etc., and this isn't 1500 years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

If you want to follow the Old Ways, you better rebuild the Temple and find a red heifer and a whole lot of sheep and goats.

peace to you:praying:
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by canadyjd
Torture is evil. Christians ought not to participate in evil deeds.

peace to you:praying:
LeBuick said:
Scripture please...
Surely you can remember a verse or two that speaks of having mercy upon others. Doesn't Romans 1 speak of those who have rejected God being without love or forgiveness or mercy?

Didn't Jesus tell us that the way the world will know we are His disciples will be because of the love we have for one another?

I see torture as inconsistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles.

Perhaps you see it differently.

peace to you:praying:
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
canadyjd said:
Because loosing your freedom over criminal acts is not the same as physically torturing a person to get information.

Your previous citation:

Romans 12:17 "Never pay back evil for evil to anyone..."
Torture is evil. Christians ought not to participate in evil deeds


Is it evil-- or is it not evil-- to forcefully take a person away and confine where they choose not to be? If it is evil, this would be paying back an evil for another evil.
 

npetreley

New Member
If you use cruel and unusual treatment often enough, doesn't that make it just "cruel", since it's no longer unusual?
 

Sopranette

New Member
What a strange thread. That it would even be something people would be unsure about is truly frightening, for all of us!

love,

Sopranette
 

stevecleary

New Member
righteousdude2 said:
In war, there are no laws, and if it takes torture to get Intel that protects the greater good of the multitudes, than so be it!

The laws of war are clearly established in international law and even the USA is supposed to follow them. Furthermore, God's law is to be respected and upheld, even if one adheres to a just war position.

righteousdude2 said:
I personally couldn't torture another human being, but, I don't want to stand in the way of those who use it to keep us safe.

So, you would say that the deed of somebody else done in your name would absolve you of moral responsibility?

righteousdude2 said:
Don't think for one minute that the terrorists don't torture Americans and their Allies....cutting the heads off of prisoners is more than torture, it is cruel and inhumane.

Indeed. As is keeping someone on death row for years on end.

righteousdude2 said:
These comedians, media folks, and radical actors preaching peace will be like a parasite and the terrorists will have to silence their voices as soon as possible..

Even your own Republican Party have expressed doubts over the course of action followed by the US in, say, Iraq.

righteousdude2 said:
there can never be peace in a world where radicals live. Thanks God for America....no, I really mean: God Bless America!!!

Define radical.....
 

JustChristian

New Member
righteousdude2 said:
In war, there are no laws, and if it takes torture to get Intel that protects the greater good of the multitudes, than so be it! I personally couldn't torture another human being, but, I don't want to stand in the way of those who use it to keep us safe.

Don't think for one minute that the terrorists don't torture Americans and their Allies....cutting the heads off of prisoners is more than torture, it is cruel and inhumane.

Now the reality: If the terrorists were to get the upper-hand and take over America, DON'T be surprised if the first persons and groups the terrorists capture and kill :tonofbricks: are the actors and liberal media. These comedians, media folks, and radical actors preaching peace will be like a parasite and the terrorists will have to silence their voices as soon as possible.

Now you've heard my side, right or wrong, that is how I see it, and there can never be peace in a world where radicals live. Thanks God for America....no, I really mean: God Bless America!!!

Pastor Paul

I'm sorry but there are laws in war. The Geneva Convention defined what was an acceptable way to treat prisoners. The Nazi's were put on trial for "war crimes."
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
BaptistBeliever said:
The Nazi's were put on trial for "war crimes."

Which has little meaning beyond that many nations got together and lynched them.
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
BaptistBeliever said:
So you believe that the Nazi leadership shouldn't have been punished at all?

"Punished," "lynched," whatever you call it, it should have happened to them. The fact that it was a globally-organized lynchmob doesn't change that.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Alcott said:
Your previous citation:

Romans 12:17 "Never pay back evil for evil to anyone..."
Torture is evil. Christians ought not to participate in evil deeds

Is it evil-- or is it not evil-- to forcefully take a person away and confine where they choose not to be? If it is evil, this would be paying back an evil for another evil.
It is biblical for governments to create laws that maintain order. Therefore, it is not "evil" for governments to administer punishment, including imprisonment, for those who commit crimes; assuming the government is not corrupt and the punishments are "fair".

If Christians sought to take their own revenge and deal out the punishment themselves, including imprisonment, then that would be unbiblical and therefore evil, since it is disobedient to God's Word.

To torture someone moves the debate into a different arena. "Torture" says much more about those who engage in it or support it than it says about those who are the victims of it.

It is contrary to the teachings of Christ, and therefore evil.

peace to you:praying:
 

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
canadyjd said:
...it is not "evil" for governments to administer punishment, including imprisonment, for those who commit crimes;

Yes or No -- Is it evil to take a person away where he doesn't want to go and confine him there for years, maybe decades?

You say one thing is evil for a Christian and not for a government. If that is the way of things, how can you show it is evil to torture a prisoner if a government can do things Christians can't?
 

youngmom4

New Member
So, is it the position of those who believe torture is wrong, no matter what, that we should sit back and not do anything and allow another 9/11 to happen? :BangHead: Personally, I have no problem with our military/government torturing terrorists to extract information about future plans. If it prevents another 3000 deaths, the end justifies the means. I don't believe God would have us sit back and do nothing in this situation. Torturing somebody for no reason would be wrong...torturing someone in a war situation to save lives is not wrong!
 

Ulsterman

New Member
youngmom4 said:
So, is it the position of those who believe torture is wrong, no matter what, that we should sit back and not do anything and allow another 9/11 to happen? :BangHead: Personally, I have no problem with our military/government torturing terrorists to extract information about future plans. If it prevents another 3000 deaths, the end justifies the means. I don't believe God would have us sit back and do nothing in this situation. Torturing somebody for no reason would be wrong...torturing someone in a war situation to save lives is not wrong!

The "end justifies the means" is not a Christian ethos, but secular humanist. It is never right to torture people.
 
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