When I joined this forum, I thought I'd be joining a group of folks that were conservative and loved America.
Then your expectations were wrong. I don't support torture and I'm conservative and I love America.
I have since found that a lot of these folks are liberals, seemingly wanting the US to be so humble and meek that the enemy smacks their cheeks off both sides of the face.
Torturing enemies makes America strong? Our enemies behead Americans and we consider it barbaric. How does it make America strong to become as barbaric as the enemy?
War has been declared to be "hell" and in war there are many things that go on that would make liberals and conservatives neck hair curl and stand on ends. As a Viet Nam vet, I can tell you that I was taught this one procedure called "search and destroy" which meant we'd dispatch to a local village that was supposedly informed of our operation. The Army taught us that the villagers that remained were VC sympathizers, and we were to eliminate every living thing.
The was something similar to orders given to Israel by God. They were to destroy every living human and animal.
Since you've accused me of twisting your words in another thread, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the U.S. military speaks the very words of God? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.
War hasn't changed much since the creation of man in Eden, but, the growth and voice of liberals has. These folks ought to be treated to an America that is weak kneed, because they would be the first to be killed when the enemy come into their city.
What if I showed you information that said that torture was ineffective? Would it change your opinion of what you think makes America strong?
Here's a report that shows torture is ineffective.
From the linked article:
President Bush has insisted that those secret “enhanced” techniques are crucial, and he is far from alone. The notion that turning up pressure and pain on a prisoner will produce valuable intelligence is a staple of popular culture from the television series “24” to the recent Republican presidential debate, where some candidates tried to outdo one another in vowing to get tough on captured terrorists. ...
But some of the experts involved in the interrogation review, called “Educing Information,” say that during World War II, German and Japanese prisoners were effectively questioned without coercion.
“It far outclassed what we’ve done,” said Steven M. Kleinman, a former Air Force interrogator and trainer, who has studied the World War II program of interrogating Germans. ... Mr. Kleinman, who worked as an interrogator in Iraq in 2003, called the post-Sept. 11 efforts “amateurish” by comparison.
America won WWII and torture wasn't used. For some strange reason, we're using the interrogation programs and methods of the Soviet Union for our model.
Here's a handy link for you. Doesn't it strike you as totally ridiculous that we're using the "Evil Empire", the poster-child for neverending hostility, as our model for freedom and security?
Charles C. Krulak and Joseph P. Hoar make these points in their op-ed, "
It's Our Cage, Too: Torture Betrays Us and Breeds New Enemies." Krulak is a former commandant of the Marine Corps. Hoar is a former commander in chief of U.S. Central Command. They write of the "disastrous consequences" of the Bush administration's embrace of torture, saying it has:
... nurtured the recuperative power of the enemy. This war will be won or lost not on the battlefield but in the minds of potential supporters who have not yet thrown in their lot with the enemy. If we forfeit our values by signaling that they are negotiable in situations of grave or imminent danger, we drive those undecideds into the arms of the enemy. This way lies defeat, and we are well down the road to it.
Torture is ineffective, morally corrosive and a certain path to military defeat.
So, why on Earth does anybody who says that they love America say that this is something we should accept or approve? And why do Christians support torture?
raying:
