Is Ukraine the Sacrificial Lamb

[poncho]

You misquote me. I said that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine and Crimea, aiding separatists, while their government denies that they are doing so. I have posted links that support this. Of course, they do not agree with your point of view and you brush them off.

No Lewis, I asked you if you could verify the information contained in them, if you could identify the soldiers by their uniforms and tell me where, when and by whom the image in your link was taken. And I posted a link to the top Ukrainian general publicly admitting he is not fighting against "Russian troops" in Ukraine.

And you come back with "I have posted links that support this. Of course, they do not agree with your point of view and you brush them off."

My questions are still un answered and my evidence is still un refuted. You "brushed them off". Why would you do that Lewis?

Putin has nationalized the majority of media in Russia, and in some cases has caused his opponents to literally vanish from TV programs, air-brushed out except for a leg remaining here or there. An of journalists and opposition leaders there have been murdered or died under mysterious circumstances, , Boris Nemtsov, who was reported to have been preparing to release evidence of Russian troops operating in east Ukraine.-

What's the difference if the media is nationalized or corporatized Lewis? If the State controls the media we hear what the state wants us to hear. If only 6 multinational corporations control the media we hear what those 6 multinational corporations want us to hear. Do you think either is there to fully inform us so we can make rational decisions based on facts and evidence?

"A close ally of murdered Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov says he is "totally sceptical" that the two men charged organized his killing.

"The trigger man will be blamed, while those who actually ordered the killing will go free," Ilya Yashin, co-founder of Mr Nemtsov's party, said on Sunday. "The investigators' nonsensical theory about Islamist motives in the killing suits the Kremlin and takes [President] Putin out of the firing line,"

Recall Alexander Litvinenko, an outspoken critic of Putin who died a slow death by polonium poisoning.

So it is no surprise that little news of their involvement is coming out of Russia.

The same could be said about the Clintons. Got proof? If not then you might possibly be pushing a "gasp" conspiracy theory.

Recall that In 2009, Putin said, “It’s a crime when someone only begins talking about the separation of Russia and the Ukraine”.

Consider that in 2014 Putin asked for, and received permission from his parliament to use military force in Ukraine.

That was after Washington initiated the bloody coup that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine. Little details like that the 6 multinational corporations that control the MSM consistently leave out of the "news" makes a big difference Lewis.

Then there's this.

MOSCOW -- Russian President Vladimir Putin asked parliament Tuesday to cancel a resolution sanctioning the use of military force in Ukraine, a move his Ukrainian counterpart heralded as a "practical step" toward bringing peace to a region roiled by a separatist insurgency.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vladimir-putin-withdraws-request-to-use-military-force-in-ukraine/

When is the last time you heard of an American president asking congress to cancel a resolution sanctioning the use of force against any nation?

Most importantly, the great majority of UN member states have opposed Putin's annexation of Crimea and large portions of Ukraine as illegal. By a vote of 100 to 11:
"By a recorded vote of 100 in favour to 11 against, with 58 abstentions, the Assembly adopted a resolution titled “Territorial integrity of Ukraine”, calling on States, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any change in the status of Crimea or the Black Sea port city of Sevastopol, and to refrain from actions or dealings that might be interpreted as such.

Today’s debate preceding the vote offered the first opportunity for the broader United Nations membership to air their view on the Crimea question. Many said the referendum had contravened international law, the United Nations Charter and Ukraine’s Constitution, emphasizing that they would neither recognize it nor the Russian Federation’s subsequent illegal annexation of Crimea."

Again, this was after Washington initiated a violent coup that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine. An act that obviously "contravened international law, the United Nations Charter and Ukraine’s Constitution" and caused the division of Ukraine that led to the Crimean referendum (90% vote) to rejoin Russia. If Washington had minded it's own affairs instead of interfering in Ukrainian affairs and doing the "regime change boogey" in that country Crimea would still be part of Ukraine today.

Details Lewis, details. They make all the difference.

Colin Powell’s Infamous U.N. Speech, 10 Years Later: Deceiving Public, Ignoring Whistleblowers Led to War

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

 

[Lewis]

No Lewis, I asked you if you could verify the information contained in them

No Poncho, you did misquote me and...even put it in quotes! And now deny that you did so. Post #77.

Then there's this.

MOSCOW -- Russian President Vladimir Putin asked parliament Tuesday to cancel a resolution sanctioning the use of military force in Ukraine, a move his Ukrainian counterpart heralded as a "practical step" toward bringing peace to a region roiled by a separatist insurgency.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vladimir-putin-withdraws-request-to-use-military-force-in-ukraine/

When is the last time you heard of an American president asking congress to cancel a resolution sanctioning the use of force against any nation?

I have no doubt that Putin is ready to stand down. He has annexed portions of Ukraine and all of Crimea, just as he set out to do. Now he can appear to be reasonable, a peace-maker, by stopping for now.

"Moscow (AFP) - President Vladimir Putin has revealed the moment he says he gave the secret order for Russia's annexation of Crimea.

In a trailer shown Sunday for an upcoming documentary on state-run Rossiya-1 television called "Homeward bound", Putin openly discusses Moscow's controversial grabbing of Crimea a year ago.

Putin recounts an all-night meeting with security services chiefs to discuss how to extricate deposed president Viktor Yanukovych, who had fled a pro-Western street revolt in the Ukrainian capital Kiev.
"We ended at about seven in the morning," Putin says. "When we were parting, I said to my colleagues: we must start working on returning Crimea to Russia."

 

[poncho]

No Poncho, you did misquote me and...even put it in quotes! And now deny that you did so. Post #77.

Okay Lewis if you aren't claiming "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea" then what are you claiming?

These are your words, exactly . . . "Here is video of Russian armor driving through the Donetsk region of Ukraine." "Here is the way that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine, as told by Lt. Manas Mambetov:"

If that's not making a claim Russia has invaded Ukraine then what is it?

I have no doubt that Putin is ready to stand down. He has annexed portions of Ukraine and all of Crimea, just as he set out to do. Now he can appear to be reasonable, a peace-maker, by stopping for now.

Annexed? That word again? Do you even know what that word means or are you just repeating it because that's the word the corporate media has been saying over and over and over again as if it's a "bad word"?

Did you know that James K. Polk annexed Texas in 1845?

Why was he able to do that Lewis? Because the Texans wanted to be part of the United States! No differently than the people of Crimea wanted to be part of Russia by an overwhelming majority.

Putin didn't roll into Crimea and claim it against the will of the Crimean people. They wanted to re join Russia.

And the people of Crimea wouldn't even have had to make that choice if it weren't for Washington's support and backing of a violent bloody coup that overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine and installed a Washington/EU friendly vassal state in it's place.

What is so hard to understand about that? Note I am including the definition of vassal in case you don't know what that word means. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vassal

"Moscow (AFP) - President Vladimir Putin has revealed the moment he says he gave the secret order for Russia's annexation of Crimea.

In a trailer shown Sunday for an upcoming documentary on state-run Rossiya-1 television called "Homeward bound", Putin openly discusses Moscow's controversial grabbing of Crimea a year ago.

Putin recounts an all-night meeting with security services chiefs to discuss how to extricate deposed president Viktor Yanukovych, who had fled a pro-Western street revolt in the Ukrainian capital Kiev.

"We ended at about seven in the morning," Putin says. "When we were parting, I said to my colleagues: we must start working on returning Crimea to Russia."

Okay, I'm going to overlook the fact that you already told me you don't trust the Russian state run media to be honest then turn around and use the Russian state media to support your um, "position".

Even if the Russian state run media is being totally honest here you have not proven that Putin has done what Washington and you are accusing him of.

Intent is not an outcome. I could have the intention to become the world's greatest ski jumper but until I take action and actually become the world's greatest ski jumper it's still nothing but my intention.

Now, here is the list of questions that you still have not answered.

1. Do you actually know what a think tank is, how it is funded, who it's experts are and what it's function is?

2. Are you familiar with the term "fascism"?

3. Can you think of a closer relationship today than that between corporations, their think tanks and government?

4. Does it not stand to reason that a corporate sponsored think tank would do it's best to keep it's corporate sponsors happy by advocating government policies that serve it's corporate sponsor's interests regardless of how those policies may effect everyone else?

5. And who are the Washington politician's biggest campaign donors again?

6. How long would Walmart and McDonalds sponsor La Raza as they do SEE THIS if La Raza wasn't advocating government policy that benefited Walmart and McDonalds?

7. I know the corporate sponsored talking heads on TV and within those think tanks tell us this is a crazy idea. But why wouldn't they tell us that?

8. Who's interests does RUSI serve?

9. Your's, the people of Ukraine or it's corporate sponsors?

10. Notice how it has the same impressive sounding name and panel of "experts" but this report tells a totally different story doesn't it?

11. Have you by any chance taken the time to read the NDAA?

12. How many of these "drills" does it take to condition the population into accepting this as a "normal" part of life?

13. Who's crazier the guy that notices all this happening around him and points it out even is his "predictions" haven't come to fruition yet or the guy that says "it's not happening the other guy is crazy"?

14. And you can say for absolute certain this is what the Daily Mail claims it is right?

15. Radio Free Europe? Really?

16. You do understand that Radio Free Europe is an old OSS/CIA operation created for the express purpose of spreading "western" propaganda in Europe right?

17. Why would a general who has been fought to a stand still by "Russian separatists" lie about this?

18. What would that evidence look like?

19. Do you see any of that on Fox News, CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS?

20. Will these questions remain unanswered?

Now I feel the need to add to the list.

21. Do you "intend" to answer my questions or do you "intend" to keep ignoring them and accusing me of "misquoting" you?

Again in the spirit of debate I keep answering your questions and addressing your "assertions" but so far you haven't seen fit to respond in that same spirit of debate. IMHO that's not very courteous on your part Lewis.

 

[Lewis]

Okay Lewis if you aren't claiming "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea" then what are you claiming?

These are your words, exactly . . . "Here is video of Russian armor driving through the Donetsk region of Ukraine." "Here is the way that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine, as told by Lt. Manas Mambetov:"

If that's not making a claim Russia has invaded Ukraine then what is it?

I did not say "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea." I didn't say those words and yet you quoted me as if I had. Do you always invent quotes like that?

I provided news reports, showing that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine. That professional soldiers were supplying the separatists with weapons and training. And that Russian troops have been wounded and killed in in the fighting there. The Kremlin denies that this is the case, and the Kremlin controls most of the media in Russia.

Annexed? That word again? Do you even know what that word means or are you just repeating it because that's the word the corporate media has been saying over and over and over again as if it's a "bad word"?

Would you prefer Anschluss? Less offensive to you?

Putin didn't roll into Crimea and claim it against the will of the Crimean people. They wanted to re join Russia.

Hmmm...it may be that the people of New Mexico or California may in the not too distant future be majority Mexican descent, and want to rejoin Mexico. Would you be ok with that?

The US ceded it's claim to Panama. Would you be ok if the US now decided to annex Panama?

Radio Free Europe? Really?

Infowars? Really?

Do you "intend" to answer my questions or do you "intend" to keep ignoring them and accusing me of "misquoting" you?

You did misquote me and continue to deny it. I don't think I'm required to answer any of your hypothetical questions at all.

Here is another report:

They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine…
The Kremlin denies sending troops into the conflict in east Ukraine, but Russian relatives of those who have served and died across the border tell a different story.

"The official denial of Russian military participation in Ukraine has pressured the relatives of those who served and died there to keep silent, and could deprive many of them of the benefits to which they are entitled. But some have started to speak out.

Yelena Tumanova, a hospital orderly from Russia’s Mari El republic, said her son Anton Tumanov told her by phone on 10 August that his army unit was being sent to Donetsk. On 20 August, a coffin came back to Mari El with a small window through which she could see his face. His legs had been torn off by an artillery strike, his comrades told her. He was 20 years old.

“When he chose this path, we didn’t know they were sending our soldiers to Ukraine,” Tumanova told the Guardian. “If I would have known, if he would have known … he would not have joined up again. Even if he would have, I wouldn’t have let him. But he said: ‘Don’t worry, [the Russian president Vladimir] Putin says they won’t send anyone there.’”

 

[poncho]

I did not say "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea." I didn't say those words and yet you quoted me as if I had. Do you always invent quotes like that?

I provided news reports, showing that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine. That professional soldiers were supplying the separatists with weapons and training. And that Russian troops have been wounded and killed in in the fighting there. The Kremlin denies that this is the case, and the Kremlin controls most of the media in Russia.



Would you prefer Anschluss? Less offensive to you?



Hmmm...it may be that the people of New Mexico or California may in the not too distant future be majority Mexican descent, and want to rejoin Mexico. Would you be ok with that?

The US ceded it's claim to Panama. Would you be ok if the US now decided to annex Panama?


Infowars? Really?



You did misquote me and continue to deny it. I don't think I'm required to answer any of your hypothetical questions at all.

Here is another report:

They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine…
The Kremlin denies sending troops into the conflict in east Ukraine, but Russian relatives of those who have served and died across the border tell a different story.

"The official denial of Russian military participation in Ukraine has pressured the relatives of those who served and died there to keep silent, and could deprive many of them of the benefits to which they are entitled. But some have started to speak out.

Yelena Tumanova, a hospital orderly from Russia’s Mari El republic, said her son Anton Tumanov told her by phone on 10 August that his army unit was being sent to Donetsk. On 20 August, a coffin came back to Mari El with a small window through which she could see his face. His legs had been torn off by an artillery strike, his comrades told her. He was 20 years old.

“When he chose this path, we didn’t know they were sending our soldiers to Ukraine,” Tumanova told the Guardian. “If I would have known, if he would have known … he would not have joined up again. Even if he would have, I wouldn’t have let him. But he said: ‘Don’t worry, [the Russian president Vladimir] Putin says they won’t send anyone there.’”

You aren't required to answer my questions Lewis nor am I required to answer your's yet I try to answer your questions because it's a courtesy thing Lewis.

Apparently you aren't here to be courteous. You're here to brow beat me into excepting a narrative that's been repackaged and replayed and has been proven to be wrong over the course of several needless wars and military interventions now.

Here's but one example, think "incubator babies".

HOW PR SOLD THE WAR IN THE PERSIAN GULF

Hill & Knowlton, then the world's largest PR firm, served as mastermind for the Kuwaiti campaign. Its activities alone would have constituted the largest foreign-funded campaign ever aimed at manipulating American public opinion. By law, the Foreign Agents Registration Act should have exposed this propaganda campaign to the American people, but the Justice Department chose not to enforce it. Nine days after Saddam's army marched into Kuwait, the Emir's government agreed to fund a contract under which Hill & Knowlton would represent "Citizens for a Free Kuwait," a classic PR front group designed to hide the real role of the Kuwaiti government and its collusion with the Bush administration. Over the next six months, the Kuwaiti government channeled $11.9 million dollars to Citizens for a Free Kuwait, whose only other funding totalled $17,861 from 78 individuals. Virtually all of CFK's budget -- $10.8 million -- went to Hill & Knowlton in the form of fees.74

The man running Hill & Knowlton's Washington office was Craig Fuller, one of Bush's closest friends and inside political advisors. The news media never bothered to examine Fuller's role until after the war had ended, but if America's editors had read the PR trade press, they might have noticed this announcement, published in O'Dwyer's PR Services before the fighting began: "Craig L. Fuller, chief of staff to Bush when he was vice-president, has been on the Kuwaiti account at Hill & Knowlton since the first day.

http://www.prwatch.org/books/tsigfy10.html

Wake up Lewis. You're watching re runs again.

You have posted "news" reports from a corporate media that has helped Washington engineer several military interventions now that have later been shown to be based on false pretenses.

Yet you still put your faith in their claims even when they do not provide any hard evidence. All you've posted is "he said, she said, they said" stuff and that's all you'll ever be able to post Lewis because the bulk of the evidence goes against your "impressively credentialed" false corporate narrative.

In other words you're placing your faith in people who are known for their ability to lie and create false perceptions that have led us into several needless wars and interventions. That's why when I ask you for evidence all you can find is more "he said, she said, they said" stuff.

That's not evidence. It's propaganda of the same type we heard coming from the Clinton administration, the Bush administration, and now the Obama administration.

Ukraine Cracks Down on Independent Media, NATO Member Directly Supporting Al Qaeda in Syria

Wasn’t the Maidan Revolution supposed to bring liberty and democracy to Ukrainians? Neo-Nazis have been given key positions in the government, regime opponents have been massacred and now the security services are cracking down on independent journalists and bloggers. Meanwhile Al Qaeda temporarily seized the city of Idlib in Syria and ”militants based in and supplied via Turkey took part in the operation, leading the Syrian government itself to accuse the NATO member of directly supporting Al Qaeda.”

As confirmed in an earlier report April 9, 2015, the Security Bureau of Ukraine, on April 7th, had seized and disappeared two Odessa bloggers, who were trying to get an independent investigation, and ultimate prosecution, of the individuals who participated in the 2 May 2014 massacre of regime opponents, and who burned, shot, and clubbed to death perhaps over 200 in the Odessa Trade Unions Building — the event that precipitated the breakaway of Donbass from the rest of the former Ukraine, the country’s civil war. (See Ukraine “Disappears” Opponents of the Kiev Regime. Abductions of Independent Journalists By Eric Zuesse, April 09, 2015)

And I also reported that April 7th saw the official announcement that,

“The security service of Ukraine … has discontinued operation of a number of Internet sites that were used to perpetrate information campaigns of aggression on the part of the Russian Federation aimed at violent change or overthrow of the constitutional order and territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine.”

The follow-up to that story is the news on April 9th, which was reported in the courageous independent Kiev newspaper, Vesti, that “SBU has blocked more than 10,000 websites.” It says that, “Law enforcers seized the servers,” and that one SBU official told the newspaper, “‘We have made the decision of the court and confiscated equipment.’ He promised to return the servers in two months.”

Another news report on April 9th in Vesti tells of seizures of that day’s edition of newspapers by far-right toughs at news stands throughout the city, and the story even shows a video of Right Sector toughs raiding and emptying a Vesti delivery van headed out for distribution. The report also said:

“On Thursday, April 9, machines [coin-operated distribution boxes] that were transporting part of the circulation of the Kiev edition of the newspaper ‘Vesti’ were attacked. The attacks occurred around the metro stations ‘Heroes of Dnepr’ and ’Vasylkivska.’ In both cases, the scenario was the same: the circulation machine was blocked by two cars that emerged containing unidentified men wearing symbols of the ‘Right Sector’ who illegally seized the circulation. In the case near the metro station ‘Vasylkivska,’ a driver was beaten, and the attackers threatened to burn his car.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-blocks-10000-websites-confiscates-a-newspaper/5442084

On Monday, February 2nd, Brookings (whose Michael O’Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack had been among the leaders of the invade-Iraq movement before the 2003 U.S. invasion there on false pretenses) issued a report, “Preserving Ukraine’s Independence, Resisting Russian Aggression: What the United States and NATO Must Do.” This report urged “providing direct military assistance—in far larger amounts than provided to date and including lethal defensive arms—so that Ukraine is better able to defend itself. The U.S. government should provide Ukraine $1 billion in military assistance as soon as possible in 2015, followed by additional tranches of $1 billion in FY 2016 and FY 2017.”

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/brookings-wants-villages-firebombed-ukraines-anti-terrorist-operation.html

 

[poncho]

That euphemism “defensive arms” is for gullible individuals only: guns and tanks obviously fire in both directions, and so do anti-tank weapons etc. — and there was no “Russian Aggression” in Ukraine until the Obama Administration violently overthrew the existing Government there in February of last year. Adolf Hitler claimed to be “defending” Germany when he invaded and took over Poland in 1939, following a “false flag” incident in Poland that could have been a model for Obama’s in Ukraine last year, and the United States is copying not only his PR tactics about it, but the continuing violence afterwards, differing mainly in his using surrogates to do the job, instead of (as Hitler did) claiming the consequences as being his own. (Hitler was able to tell Germans that Poland was threatening Germany, but Obama can’t likewise persuasively say to Americans that Ukraine constitutes a threat to America: Americans aren’t that gullible, and he knows this.) As the following videos of the U.S.-sponsored firebombings — and of regular bombings — of cities and villages in Donbass will make clear, these consequences also compete rather well with Hitler’s in their sheer violence.

An outline of that coup should be expressly stated here: The U.S. overthrew Ukraine’s peaceful (though like all of that country’s previous ones corrupt) Government, by hiring Ukrainian (and some foreign) masked racist-fascist (or nazi) mercenaries (who were dressed as that Government’s security forces so that the existing Ukrainian President would be blamed), to fire down onto anti-corruption demonstrators massed at Kiev’s Maidan square — and here will be shown the reality of what our billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars are already buying for the resulting war from that overthrow, which Brookings wants Americans to buy yet more of:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/brookings-wants-villages-firebombed-ukraines-anti-terrorist-operation.html

 

[OldRegular]

democrats have been soft on communism and the USSR at least since the days of Eleanor Roosevelt. Putin is a communist, fascist, whatever but a tyrant. Was the reset button of Clinton and Obama a gift of the Ukraine to Russia, soon to be the USSR if things keep going like they are!

 

[poncho]

democrats have been soft on communism and the USSR at least since the days of Eleanor Roosevelt. Putin is a communist, fascist, whatever but a tyrant. Was the reset button of Clinton and Obama a gift of the Ukraine to Russia, soon to be the USSR if things keep going like they are!

Hey I got an idea lets talk about everything but the fact that Obama and the neocons in the State Dept overthrew a legally elected government in a violent coup and replaced it with people who love killing and displacing every ethnic Russian Ukrainian who might vote against them if a fair election was ever held in Ukraine again.

Let's talk about everything but the fact that is has been NATO threatening Russian interests by moving military bases on Russia's border.

Let's talk about everything but how wrong the neocons have been about every other military adventure they've got us involved in.

And let's talk about everything but how those military adventures have turned into costly blood soaked disasters that have only served to increase our enemy's numbers and turn world opinion against us.

Let's just keep believing the same old lies and the same old fear and paranoia based propaganda that led us into war with Iraq and Libya and every other un-constitutional military intervention since WWII.

 

[poncho]

Colour Revolutions in the Caucasian States?

In February, the US assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland travelled to the Southern Caucasus to visit the governments of Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan, stoking fears by many in the region as to the nature of her visit considering her role in the Ukrainian coup. Nuland’s trip was intended on the one hand to pressure certain Caucasian states into compliance with US interests, and on the other to prepare the groundwork for colour revolutions and destabilisation operations if allegiance is not purchased.

Nuland reportedly meet with representatives of Armenian NGO’s behind closed doors on her trip to Yerevan, a country that is a member of the CSTO and the EEU. There is no doubt that destabilising Armenia is a goal of the US and if a pro-Western regime is installed in Yerevan, it would weaken two important Eurasian alliances. Russia and Armenia are well aware of Washington’s desires however, and are working to stave off attacks. Armenia is moving closer to enacting more stringent NGO laws that would enable the Azeri government to monitor their activities more closely, an essential step in inhibiting foreign nations from agitating and fostering animosity in the nation.

Unnerved by the chaos they have witnessed in Ukraine, many individuals in the Azeri government fear a Western-sponsored colour revolution could be on the horizon in their country in the near future. Colour revolution kingpin George Soros criticised the Azeri government in January of this year after meeting with Azerbaijan’s president Ilham Aliyev, with a Baku-based branch of his Open Society Foundation increasingly coming under pressure by government authorities. Richard D. Kauzlarich outlines the deteriorating relationship between Washington and Baku in an article for the Brookings Institution titled: The Heydar Aliyev Era Ends in Azerbaijan Not with a Bang but a Whisper, in addition to detailing the fears officials have of a Ukrainian-style coup in Azerbaijan:

Read More At: http://www.globalresearch.ca/coups-and-color-revolutions-us-wages-geopolitical-warfare-against-russia-in-central-asia-and-caucasus/5441969

Be on the lookout for future episodes in the never ending saga of the Washington/Wall Street (Govcorp Inc.) "regime change boogey" in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan and possibly even Uzbekistan.

Once again to be blamed on "Russian aggression" by Govcorp Inc. and the mockingbird corporate controlled media with no evidence to support the many allegations that are sure to precede and follow each violent coup.

I know I will be watching with awe and utter amazement once again at how many here will fall for the same old lies and the same old fear/paranoia based propaganda coming from Govcorp Inc. that we have seen replayed over and over again for the last half century with the only changes being made to the same old script being the names and images of the "bad guys" we're supposedly fighting against in the name of "freedom and democracy".

Bundestag speech by MP Sahra Wagenknecht: EU policy has destroyed Ukraine and damaged Europe

March 19, 2015
April 9, 2015
Translated from German by Tom Winter

Mr President, honored ladies and gentlemen, Frau Chancellor.

At your best times, German foreign policy had two priorities: Unity for Europe and a good neighbor policy with Russia. It should give you food for thought, Frau Merkel, if you would listen,

Continue . . . http://freeukrainenow.org/2015/04/10/bundestag-speech-by-mp-sahra-wagenknecht-eu-policy-has-destroyed-ukraine-and-damaged-europe/

Kiev junta launches a large scale attack on Novorossia right in time for Russian Orthodox Easter

“In general, we can say that the ceasefire is over – the entire front is under fire, including artillery. Shock troops of the enemy moved to the forefront.”

Donetsk under fire
War correspondent “Step” reports:

Shells are whistling again over the cities of Donbass. In Donetsk the sirens of ambulances and emergency services are heard. Under fire: Kievsky district, Oktyabrsky village, Panfilov mine village, Gladkova, Severny, Putilovka.

The entire evening of April 9 there was a battle in the village of Spartak and near Peski. The punishers used artillery guns, tanks, mortars, heavy barreled artillery. Under the cover of artillery, the enemy attempted to seize the positions of the militia in Spartak and near the airport. During the battle, this attempt was severely suppressed.

Read More At: http://freeukrainenow.org/2015/04/10/kiev-junta-launches-a-large-scale-attack-on-novorossia-right-in-time-for-russian-orthodox-easter/

On 14 January 2015, I headlined “The Most-Censored News Story of 2014 Was ___What___?” and reported that, after an investigation, I had found that, by far, the most-censored news story of 2014 in America was Obama’s coup and U.S.-supported ethnic-cleansing in Ukraine. Links were provided there to videos of the the U.S.-backed massacre in the Trade Unions Building in Odessa on 2 May 2014, and the following ethnic cleansing in the Donbass region. However, the U.S. even sponsors firebombings of Donbass in order to get rid of the residents there, and our ‘media watchdogs’ are even silent about the ’news’ being silent about that.

And, here is a good video of America’s Ukrainian coup, which overthrew Yanukovych. Here is more about that coup.

< snip >

America is trying to conquer Russia, and the placement of nuclear missiles right next door to Russia, in Ukraine seems to be Obama’s objective. America’s ‘news’ media, and their ‘watchdogs,’ are doing a terrific job of hiding all of this from the American people. They wouldn’t do that if these events weren’t enormously important to the American aristocracy, who, it seems, have bought up all of the major mainstream and alternative news media. Scandals far less important than this ongoing one are routinely receiving much attention from the American press. However, even America’s ‘media watchdogs’ ignore this scandal of America’s press. Thus, there aren’t peace-marches and other public demonstrations about this, even though America’s bringing nazis to power in Ukraine is shocking. But you can find out all about it by clicking on the links here, and on the links within those linked-to news reports. It’s all history now, which was unfortunately never reported by U.S. media while it was still news.

Continue . . . http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/americas-media-watchdogs-hide-u-s-s-ukrainian-nazification-ethnic-cleansing.html

I understand that all you "pro regime change boogey" folks would rather forget about the violent foreign (Washington/EU) backed coup that took place in Ukraine so you can give in to your left over cold war fears and paranoia to blame all the resultant deaths and destruction on Russia. Well, to bad I'm going to keep reminding you that it happened and it was this violent foreign (Washington/EU) backed coup that caused all the resultant deaths and destruction in Ukraine not the phantom "Russian aggression" that none of you have been able to prove exists anywhere other than in your mind.

 

[OldRegular]

Hey I got an idea lets talk about everything but the fact that Obama and the neocons in the State Dept overthrew a legally elected government in a violent coup and replaced it with people who love killing and displacing every ethnic Russian Ukrainian who might vote against them if a fair election was ever held in Ukraine again.

I thought that was Obama riding a white horse leading the folks in the State Dept as they defeated the Ukrainian army! that man is remarkable.:laugh:

Let's talk about everything but the fact that is has been NATO threatening Russian interests by moving military bases on Russia's border.

Lets talk about the missile defense system that Obama killed to keep from offending putin!

Let's talk about everything but how wrong the neocons have been about every other military adventure they've got us involved in.

And let's talk about everything but how those military adventures have turned into costly blood soaked disasters that have only served to increase our enemy's numbers and turn world opinion against us.

Let's just keep believing the same old lies and the same old fear and paranoia based propaganda that led us into war with Iraq and Libya and every other un-constitutional military intervention since WWII.

Neocons! Neocons! Sounds like Rand Paul.

You want to talk about blood soaked disasters talk about Korea and Viet Nam and Roe v Wade.

 

[poncho]

I thought that was Obama riding a white horse leading the folks in the State Dept as they defeated the Ukrainian army! that man is remarkable.:laugh:

Lets talk about the missile defense system that Obama killed to keep from offending putin!



Neocons! Neocons! Sounds like Rand Paul.

You want to talk about blood soaked disasters talk about Korea and Viet Nam and Roe v Wade.

Korea and Viet Nam is history. I've tried to learn the real lessons from it. Have you? What's the real lesson? Americans should have paid attention to our founder's warnings and not become entangled with foreign interests. I know neither was sold to us that way. That's what propaganda is for. To make lies sounds like the truth.

Offending Putin? :laugh:

Do you take notes so you won't forget all these neocon talking points?

Putin is offended because Washington and NATO are busy surrounding his country with military bases and missile batteries.

If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be the first to be offended.

Roe v Wade?

What good is being anti abortion when you aren't pro life?

The way you and the neocons go about it one could come to the conclusion that you only care about the lives of those still in the womb. Once they're out they become fair game.

Either as cannon fodder to further the glorious cause of Washington's world hegemony or as targets who are fighting against it.

 

[poncho]

Col Lawrence Wilkerson on America's Wars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPKjZEOwqXY

 

[OldRegular]

Korea and Viet Nam is history. I've tried to learn the real lessons from it. Have you? What's the real lesson? Americans should have paid attention to our founder's warnings and not become entangled with foreign interests. I know neither was sold to us that way. That's what propaganda is for. To make lies sounds like the truth.

Offending Putin?

Do you take notes so you won't forget all these neocon talking points?

Putin is offended because Washington and NATO are busy surrounding his country with military bases and missile batteries.

If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be the first to be offended.

Roe v Wade?

What good is being anti abortion when you aren't pro life?

The way you and the neocons go about it one could come to the conclusion that you only care about the lives of those still in the womb. Once they're out they become fair game.

Either as cannon fodder to further the glorious cause of Washington's world hegemony or as targets who are fighting against it.

Crabtownboy incarnate!:applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

[OldRegular]

Okay Lewis if you aren't claiming "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea" then what are you claiming?

These are your words, exactly . . . "Here is video of Russian armor driving through the Donetsk region of Ukraine." "Here is the way that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine, as told by Lt. Manas Mambetov:"

If that's not making a claim Russia has invaded Ukraine then what is it?




Annexed? That word again? Do you even know what that word means or are you just repeating it because that's the word the corporate media has been saying over and over and over again as if it's a "bad word"?

Did you know that James K. Polk annexed Texas in 1845?

Why was he able to do that Lewis? Because the Texans wanted to be part of the United States! No differently than the people of Crimea wanted to be part of Russia by an overwhelming majority.

Putin didn't roll into Crimea and claim it against the will of the Crimean people. They wanted to re join Russia.

And the people of Crimea wouldn't even have had to make that choice if it weren't for Washington's support and backing of a violent bloody coup that overthrew the legally elected government of Ukraine and installed a Washington/EU friendly vassal state in it's place.

What is so hard to understand about that? Note I am including the definition of vassal in case you don't know what that word means. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vassal



Okay, I'm going to overlook the fact that you already told me you don't trust the Russian state run media to be honest then turn around and use the Russian state media to support your um, "position".

Even if the Russian state run media is being totally honest here you have not proven that Putin has done what Washington and you are accusing him of.

Intent is not an outcome. I could have the intention to become the world's greatest ski jumper but until I take action and actually become the world's greatest ski jumper it's still nothing but my intention.

Now, here is the list of questions that you still have not answered.

1. Do you actually know what a think tank is, how it is funded, who it's experts are and what it's function is?

2. Are you familiar with the term "fascism"?

3. Can you think of a closer relationship today than that between corporations, their think tanks and government?

4. Does it not stand to reason that a corporate sponsored think tank would do it's best to keep it's corporate sponsors happy by advocating government policies that serve it's corporate sponsor's interests regardless of how those policies may effect everyone else?

5. And who are the Washington politician's biggest campaign donors again?

6. How long would Walmart and McDonalds sponsor La Raza as they do SEE THIS if La Raza wasn't advocating government policy that benefited Walmart and McDonalds?

7. I know the corporate sponsored talking heads on TV and within those think tanks tell us this is a crazy idea. But why wouldn't they tell us that?

8. Who's interests does RUSI serve?

9. Your's, the people of Ukraine or it's corporate sponsors?

10. Notice how it has the same impressive sounding name and panel of "experts" but this report tells a totally different story doesn't it?

11. Have you by any chance taken the time to read the NDAA?

12. How many of these "drills" does it take to condition the population into accepting this as a "normal" part of life?

13. Who's crazier the guy that notices all this happening around him and points it out even is his "predictions" haven't come to fruition yet or the guy that says "it's not happening the other guy is crazy"?

14. And you can say for absolute certain this is what the Daily Mail claims it is right?

15. Radio Free Europe? Really?

16. You do understand that Radio Free Europe is an old OSS/CIA operation created for the express purpose of spreading "western" propaganda in Europe right?

17. Why would a general who has been fought to a stand still by "Russian separatists" lie about this?

18. What would that evidence look like?

19. Do you see any of that on Fox News, CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS?

20. Will these questions remain unanswered?

Now I feel the need to add to the list.

21. Do you "intend" to answer my questions or do you "intend" to keep ignoring them and accusing me of "misquoting" you?

Again in the spirit of debate I keep answering your questions and addressing your "assertions" but so far you haven't seen fit to respond in that same spirit of debate. IMHO that's not very courteous on your part Lewis.

Poncho you better hope no one comes along with a pin!

 

[poncho]

Crabtownboy incarnate!:applause::applause::applause::applause:

It would seem that Crabby and I aren't the only ones that have "picked up" on how shall I say this? Your obviously less than pro life stance.

You appear to hold the lives of those still in the womb as more deserving of life than those who no longer reside there.

It would also appear that you believe those you fear and distrust such as say the Russians don't deserve to live at all. That they are somehow to use the German word "untermenchen" (subhuman) and therefore their lives can be extinguished whether they be guilty or innocent.

So here are the questions, is all life precious or not?

Are some more deserving of life than others?

Don't worry I don't expect you to answer them. What I do expect is a smart alec remark followed by the inevitable accusation that I am a liberal for questioning you about the apparent lack of empathy and concern for any life not residing in the womb.

Then maybe you'll wake up the musical monkey to serenade us while you think up some way to make this all about democrats as per usual.

 

[OldRegular]

It would seem that Crabby and I aren't the only ones that have "picked up" on how shall I say this? Your obviously less than pro life stance.

You appear to hold the lives of those still in the womb as more deserving of life than those who no longer reside there.

It would also appear that you believe those you fear and distrust such as say the Russians don't deserve to live at all. That they are somehow to use the German word "untermenchen" (subhuman) and therefore their lives can be extinguished whether they be guilty or innocent.

So here are the questions, is all life precious or not?

Are some more deserving of life than others?

Don't worry I don't expect you to answer them. What I do expect is a smart alec remark followed by the inevitable accusation that I am a liberal for questioning you about the apparent lack of empathy and concern for any life not residing in the womb.

Then maybe you'll wake up the musical monkey to serenade us while you think up some way to make this all about democrats as per usual.

You can't be as stupid as the above nonsense can you poncho! At least I hope not! Quoting argus from another thread:

So where did this myth that prolife equals "lacking in compassion" and proabortion equals "caring for others" come from?

It brings to mind Isaiah 5:20

Isaiah 5:20, 21
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!