Is working for Budweiser wrong???

[cojosh]

**********If the focus is on the ministry, as you say, I'm not sure how the member's employment with a beer company will hinder the ministry? People will gossip, won't they? I understand about the need to not give the appearance of sin, but working for a beer company doesn't make all of you intemperate, does it?***********

Well, the ministry involves more than one person , so the importance of being in agreement should be emphasized.

**********Your first post said you had 'some reservations'. Now you've said it's a 'strong disagreement'.

Why?
**************

Disagreement concerning convictions and values.


*************This may be a good opportunity for your group to shine a little light on other's tendencies to judge, huh? Is your concern more about being approved by people, or approved by God? Motes and beams...unless his employment is causing him to become a drunk, that job ought not to hinder your music ministry, unless you allow it to. ***********

If I was concerned with what people thought about me I'd probably drink beer myself, but since I'm concerned with God's approval I thought I'd be careful who I yoke up with under the "ministry" banner! I have certain standards concerning the issue, apparently he has differnt standards. My question, will God bless to the fullest when we are in turmoil? Is it worth the problems it could cause? Could it be a stubbling block?

*****IMHO, let the Bud employee stay. Those who turn up their noses because of a band member's place of employment probably wouldn't hear your message, anyway.******

Maybe, maybe not....

********8What style music do you play? Who is your ministry targeted towards?********

Very low-key melodic style, probably considered contemporary by some and folky to others. It's targeted towards anyone who will listen.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by DavidsonBap:
What would be a bad testimony to the group would be to back stab this guy because he is working for a living and wants to help this ministry. This guy is doing nothing wrong by working at Budweiser. People will always mark you as something or another. In my opinion, I wouldn't give it another thought.

I disagree.

There may be honest ground for disagreement on whether a Christian should drink beer without getting drunk.

But how can there be any question that is wrong to work for a company that supplies alcohol to many who abuse it? How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.?

 

[cojosh]

Scott J wrote******How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.? ********

Yes, these are some questions that plague me. How could a Christian work there?

 

[James Flagg]

Originally posted by cojosh:
Scott J wrote******How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.? ********

Yes, these are some questions that plague me. How could a Christian work there?

The same way one can justify working at AstroZeneca when they manufacture gallons of liquid Morphine. Are those people responsible for all of the morphine addicts?

Is an employee of Anheuser-Busch in St. Louis responsible for an alcoholic or a drunk-driving death here in Texas?

My dear, precious Lord; what on earth ever happened to personal responsibility???????

 

[James Flagg]

Originally posted by mioque:
Personal opinion.
No Christian should ever be involved in the brewing of substandard beer.

Well, not all Busch products are that bad. I do agree that most are indeed substandard, but I think that Michelob is a passable lager.

 

[Alcott]

And its really more than just a company that deals with alcohol...like a grocery store. It is a company whose sole purpose is alcohol. That might very well be different.

Alright, just what is the minimum percentage of a company's output that can be ethyl alcohol products? We know scripture does not tell us any such thing, but what is your idea, since you make such a claim?

Buying gas is a nessicity, it is not a worthy comparison. One has a choice wether to work at Budweiser or not.

Buying gas(oline) is not a necessity. There is public transportation, often with electrical rail, or propane or hydrogen buses. If you live in a more rural area, you can get a horse and maybe a buggy and ride like the Amish, or you can literally walk 6 miles through 3 feet of snow, if necessary. If you are claiming that you cannot buy a product, or even work for the manufacturer of such a product, because some of the small amount of income you may furnish for that company may be used in an ungodly way, and such a person is more concerned about what the product or the job does for him, you do face that same correlation if you think gasoline is a “necessity.”

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by James Flagg:
It might be "wrong" if you secretly liked Coors better.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by gb93433:
People will gossip about most anything just to elevate themselves above others.

I'll drink to that !

 

[bapmom]

Alcott,

are you claiming that Budweiser has another product besides alcohol?

All I was saying is that there is a distinction between a company which sells food or gas, but also offers some alcoholic beverages, and a company that produces only alcoholic beverages.

 

[mioque]

James Flagg
Normally.
Beer + Christianity = Monks = Excellent Beer
No reason for our side to muck up that equation.

 

[eyeball]

Keeping in mind the standards discussed above, it might be good to realize that the Anheuser-Busch corporation is not just the Budweiser brand. They own and operate numerous large theme parks (Sea World, Busch Gardens, Adventure Island, etc), metalworks, paper mills, farms, transporation concerns, real estate developers, and media production companies.

cojosh, would employment in any of the above subsidiaries disqualify one for your band? They are are much part of A-B as the beer plants.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by bapmom:
Alcott, are you claiming that Budweiser has another product besides alcohol?

I wasn't in my post to which you are referring.

All I was saying is that there is a distinction between a company which sells food or gas, but also offers some alcoholic beverages, and a company that produces only alcoholic beverages.

We both know you are evading my question as to what is the minimum percentage of a company's products that may be alcoholic beverages to be acceptable by your standards. Now someone has 'jumped' me on my next question if you ever answered that, pointing out that Anheiser-Busch is involved in many products. Nevertheless, since you made the claim of 'only product/small part of products,' answer the question about percentage.

 

[bapmom]

Alcott,

why so argumentative? I thought I made myself clear. I don't have any percentage to put on a company, and I most certainly was not trying to evade your question.

For one thing, Im not judging any company on any basis. I only said there was a distinction.

Personally, I wouldn't work at a liquor store, who's main goal is to get alcohol out, nor would I work at Budweiser's, whose main goal is also to get alcohol out. Those are different than grocery stores, who's main goal is to sell food items.

I don't think in percentages, so sorry, you aren't going to get one out of me.

If you haven't read the whole thread, please realize that Im not sitting here judging any other person or company. I can only decide where my line is.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by James Flagg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by cojosh:
Scott J wrote******How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.? ********

Yes, these are some questions that plague me. How could a Christian work there?

The same way one can justify working at AstroZeneca when they manufacture gallons of liquid Morphine. Are those people responsible for all of the morphine addicts? </font>[/QUOTE] The bulk of morphine is manufactured for a legitimate medical purpose. Beer is a drug that is intended for recreational consumption only.

The medical use for beer is if you or your pet accidentally swallow anti-freeze. Our vet advised us to keep our dog drunk for 3 days to allow the alcohol to counteract the effects. It worked... but we found that our dog preferred vodka and koolaid.

Is an employee of Anheuser-Busch in St. Louis responsible for an alcoholic or a drunk-driving death here in Texas?

Yes.

Not legally and I would never advocate such. Nor does the responsibility alleviate the person who actually consumes it one iota. But to produce something that is harmful when used as intended or knowing that it will be commonly abused is not morally right. Further, the most likely abusers/victims are young people.

Guns are used to kill. But legitimate uses of guns exist not the least of which is the protection of person and property from criminals... or the ultimate concern of the founders- government oppression.

But it is not just one death in Texas- that wouldn't be reasonable. Deaths involving alcohol are epidemic. The last statistic I saw said that much greater than half of violent crimes involve alcohol. There are diseases. Drunk driving... not to mention the millions of families and children destroyed to pay Bud workers make the company profitable.

My dear, precious Lord; what on earth ever happened to personal responsibility???????

Indeed! The person who drinks is absolutely responsible... but that doesn't vindicate the one who supplies the alcohol.

Do you think drug producers, suppliers, and dealers are behaving morally? The only real difference between them and a Bud employee is that our society has almost arbitrarily determined that the drug of alcohol should be legal while marijuanna, opium, heroin, cocaine, etc should not be.

Health, welfare, and mortality problems related to alcohol are greater than those related to any of the drugs we have declared "illegal".

 

[SaggyWoman]

I am not sure I could, with good conscience, work for budweiser.

1.) I don't support their goals.
2.) I don't drink beer.
3.) There isn't a plant near me.

 

[Shiloh]

There shouldn't be any question to a real believer, NO. Habakkuk 2:15.....and many many other verses.

 

[cojosh]

*******If you live in a more rural area, you can get a horse and maybe a buggy and ride like the Amish, or you can literally walk 6 miles through 3 feet of snow, if necessary.*********

I've always felt that it would be fun to live as the Amish!


Well, I have some serious praying and thinking to do. The issue is settled in my mind, but how could I tell him in a loving way without giving him a feeling of rejection. This is his job! It's going to be difficult to explain it to him that he can't be part of the ministry because of his employment. At first, I thought that we just wouldn't invite him back, but that may do more damage.

What now?

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by bapmom:
I don't have any percentage to put on a company, ... I only said there was a distinction... different than grocery stores, who's main goal is to sell food items... I don't think in percentages, ... I can only decide where my line is.

Okay, so you have a line, which makes a distinction, but there is no percentage involved, even though a company's main product cannot be a particular product, though you refuse to state how much of a product is necessary to be the main product. Being a 'numbers guy,' I don't think this type of logic could work for me.

 

[bapmom]

well Alcott,

Im not asking for my kind of logic to "work" for you. It seems quite clear to me, I don't really understand why it seems so cloudy to you, but my conscience isn't guiding you in any way. Try reading what ScottJ just posted. I thought it was a very good post as well.

 

[bapmom]

cojosh,

If this young man hasn't been a part of your band lately anyway, than perhaps he has no more interest in being in it.

If he DOES want to start it up again, will he ask you about it?

Another question I have is, are you the leader of the band and do you have the responsibility of taking on this kind of ultimate decision?

If you really feel that you must say something to him about the issue, I suggest you be honest with him, but do so in the most loving manner possible. Let him know you do not intend this as a rejection of him personally, nor do you want this to come between your friendship. There are just sometimes when a ministry's reputation concerns have to be met, and this rises to a level where legitimate criticism can be levied against your band.