Is working for Budweiser wrong???

[mioque]

shannonL
Unlike you I've never had a weakness, for alcohol, cocaine and marihuana (not to mention dancing halfnaked women).
So it will never be a personal issue for me.

I'm from a country were using cannabis (pot) is not illegal at all. Am I using it? Well no.
Just like most other people in this country.

As for the alcohol situation in Europe, it's just as bad (or good) as the one in the US, were they did have prohibition.

"When Jesus comes again if your comfortable being caught up out of a budweiser factory or a nightclub or bar be my guest. After all it is your liberty to do so. It sure isn't mine and I'm glad it isn't. "
"
In the unlikely event we meet eachother in a bar, I'll buy Him a drink. The art of winemaking has improved considerably since the days He visited them in Palestina Antiqua.

 

[Shiloh]

If you people would spend as much time in the Word of God as you spend on your computer you would know what the Bible has to say about the issue of drinking and or working with the stuff. ICor, 14:33 tells us that "For God is not the author of confusion..."
These is a method of Bible study called "first mention principle" where the first mention of a subject carries that same meaning all the way through the Word of God. Example, satan, first mention of him is as a liar and a deceiver. Now notice in Gen. 9:20-27. We have 3 chapters about Noah before he got drunk and only three verses after. I know some of you super spiritual will say he was drunk and the Lord Jesus tells us it's a sin to get drunk.
What about these verses you spiritual slurpers. Prov.20:1, 23:31-35, Isa.5:11, 28:7, 56:12, Hosea 4:11, Hab.2:5, Eph.5:18
You "christian" drinkers may justify drinking in your own mind but you can't do it scripturally. NO one will be an effective witness for the Lord Jesus while drinking or working for a beer distributor. It baffles me why so many people on this board want to live as close to the world as possible when God command us otherwise.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

AMEN Shiloh...e'nuff said!

Greg Sr.

 

[Askjo]

Work for a sin -- bad testimony!

 

[Ransom]

Shiloh said:

If you people would spend as much time in the Word of God as you spend on your computer you would know what the Bible has to say about the issue of drinking and or working with the stuff. ICor, 14:33 tells us that "For God is not the author of confusion..."

If you spent as much time studying the Word of God as you want others to, you would know that 1 Cor. 14:33 has nothing to do with the use or manufacture of alcoholic beverages.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

[JamieinNH]

You know Ransom,

Whenever I read someone's post and it quotes the Bible, I go and pull up e-sword and read it, and my thoughts were just what you mentioned.

I didn't think that verse was talking about this topic, but being a new Christian, and since I wasn't sure, I didn't say anything.

Thanks for confirming what I first believed when I read that passage.

Jamie

 

[mioque]

Shiloh
That's bad exegesis confusing abuse of alcohol with drinking it at all.
Something that becomes especially obvious the moment you realize that during the long period the Bible was written and for many centuries afterwards non-alcoholic beverages uncontaminated by disease were at times in short supply.
Nowadays it's no problem whatsoever if you want to avoid all alcoholic drinks. During the years Jezus walked the earth however, you would be putting your health at risk.

 

[wwr 82]

How about an opinion from a former Alcoholic? Stick with him and befriend him. Maybe you and your friends can be a light for the gentleman. If the man is providing for his family, is not being a drunken hinderance to the band then stay with him. Did Christ care about his self-image with the Samaritan woman? How about Mary Magdalene? Ask yourself if you're more concerned about how you will look in the eyes of the world or in the eyes of God?

82

 

[Dunamis XX]

cojosh,
My suggestion would be to go to someone who can give you an honest report, who is full of the Holy Spirit and godly wisdom (you have no way of knowing where most of these people stand in their relationship with God)...perhaps go to your pastor, a Christian friend, or your parents.

Here are some questions to consider with Biblical references when deciding between right and wrong:

1. Can you do it to the Glory of God (1 Cor. 10:31)?

2. Can you do it in the name of Jesus and give Him thanks (Col. 3:17)?

3. Is it of the world system (1 Jn. 2:15-17)?

4. Does it have the appearance of evil (1 Thess. 5:22)?

5. Would Jesus have done it (1 Pet. 2:21)?

6. Is it a weight, burden, or sin (Heb. 12:1)?

7. Can you do it with the Holy Spirit residing in you (1 Cor. 6:19-20)?

8. Is it or could it be a stumbling block to others (1 Cor. 8:9)?

9. Would you like to be found doing it when Jesus comes (1 Jn. 2:28)?

10. Is there any doubt that it's wrong (Rom. 14:23)?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Dunamis...that is a good list and I agree with you on the content of it and on measuring ourselves by it.How about doing me a favor and PMing me that list? I'd like to print it out and paste it in the front of my Bible.
Cojosh...this was good advice...you ought to heed it since it gives GOD the benefit of the doubt.

Greg Sr.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Last night I was walking down a street in my city, and saw a young lad of all of about 16 years of age with an aerosol can and a plastic bag. He was spraying the aerosol can into the bag and breathing in the contents.

Apparantly this is called "Huffing" and is popular with teenagers that like to take drugs.

Should then Christians abstain from using aerosol cans, or from work in factories where they are made?

As has been stated before, what is the appropriate level of personal responsablility for the use of a marketed consumer product?

Was he using the product as intended by the manufacturer? No.

Do drunkards use beer as the manufacturer intends? Yes. Are the results of that use widely known? Yes.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by shannonL:
I simply believe this situation is a matter of ethics. Is it ethical for a christian to make a living from a business that often times is responsible for the wrecking of lives by the product it distributes.
Some of you argue from the point of view that it is not this man's responsibility nor is it his employer's responsibility to look after every person who drinks beer.

Just as the "mature" Corinthians didn't think it was their responsibility to sacrifice their liberty for the sake of those who might be offended by their eating meat sacrificed to idols. They were aware of the harm being done to other believers and their witness to the pagans around them... but still Paul had to admonish them to use discernment in how they practiced their liberty.

 

[Johnv]

To keep it in context, does a person who has a glass of beer with his meal using the product as intended by the manufacturer? Yes.

Does that mean that the person consuming the beer is sinning? No.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Johnv:
To keep it in context, does a person who has a glass of beer with his meal using the product as intended by the manufacturer? Yes.

Does that mean that the person consuming the beer is sinning? No.

It depends on what is "best" rather than what is permissable. It depends on what might edify a weaker Christian or cause them to stumble... not about our "right" to liberty.

Is there a specific, concrete scriptural command against what you mention? No. But is it edifying? Is it done to the glory of God... or in spite of it?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Scott J:
It depends on what is "best" rather than what is permissable.

In that realm, it's a matter of case by case individual subjectivity. One cannot objectively condemn all cases of alcohol consumption by all people under the guise of "what is best".

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Scott J:
They were aware of the harm being done to other believers and their witness to the pagans around them... but still Paul had to admonish them to use discernment in how they practiced their liberty.

I cannot think of one time I have ever heard that issue mentioned in the thousands of doors I have knocked on. However it has gooten brought up some as being seen as stupid. It has always been a problem from the viewpoint of a Christian. It really bothers the legalist, church resident.

When was the last time a church did not serve beef or pork? We have Hindus and Jews visiting churches.

When I was growing up we were taught that wasting food was sin. For the longest time and it still does some bother me a lot when I see Christians wasting food. When is the last anyone in any church mentioned that from the pulpit?

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
It depends on what is "best" rather than what is permissable.

In that realm, it's a matter of case by case individual subjectivity. One cannot objectively condemn all cases of alcohol consumption by all people under the guise of "what is best". </font>[/QUOTE]I happen to agree.

The Bible condemns drunkeness. I abstain from alcohol for a number of reasons but the primary one is, Why should I drink something that might be offensive to someone else when God has blessed us with so many other options? Another is, Why should I tempt myself?

 

[Johnv]

I certainly support your comments and your standards. Certainly, however, you would not think less of a borhter who has a glass of beer with his fish & chips, or a glass of red wine with his filet mignon.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
They were aware of the harm being done to other believers and their witness to the pagans around them... but still Paul had to admonish them to use discernment in how they practiced their liberty.

I cannot think of one time I have ever heard that issue mentioned in the thousands of doors I have knocked on.</font>[/QUOTE] Would you deny that sinners have used the drinking of church members as their excuse for not needing Christ? Would you deny that Christians saved as drunkards have stumbled after seeing a brother drink alcohol?

However it has gooten brought up some as being seen as stupid.

You mean abstaining from a pleasure because it might offend a weaker brother?

It has always been a problem from the viewpoint of a Christian. It really bothers the legalist, church resident.

Please consider the effect without blaming it on the legalist.

One wonders if the weak consciences Paul was concerned with in Corinthians weren't those of "legalists". None the less, he said that meat sacrificed to idols shouldn't be eaten for their sakes.

When was the last time a church did not serve beef or pork? We have Hindus and Jews visiting churches.

When was the last time someone ate a steak in a bar and was so drunk that he didn't notice the pedestrian he ran over? When was the last time that eating a pork chop contributed to the mental condition of a murderer? When was the last time BBQ contributed to child or spousal abuse?

[ December 19, 2005, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I certainly support your comments and your standards. Certainly, however, you would not think less of a borhter who has a glass of beer with his fish & chips, or a glass of red wine with his filet mignon.

I wouldn't be offended. I have eaten with Christian friends who did so. They didn't drink liquor nor get drunk. They drank as a beverage accompanying their meal.

Not what I would do... but I need a scripture that says "Thou shalt not drink alcohol as a beverage" before I try to forbid their Christian liberty.