Timtoolman
New Member
Hate to admit it but it seems ladyeagle knows more then the lot of you.
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Islam trying to be the worlds pariah
- Thread starter BobRyan
- Start date
LE said....
"In fact, I believe Islam will end up being the world wide religion spoken of in prophecy, complete with a false prophet.
Revelation (chapter 20, I believe) tells of those who will be "beheaded" for Jesus Christ. No other religion practices beheading."
I disagree. Islam isn't beheading Christians, they are beheading Americans and Jews. Or American Jews, like Daniel Pearl. They don't hate Jesus any more than they hate us.
I believe there will be a peace treaty brokered by a third party, the one that sits on the seven hills, wears scarlet, one that maginifies himself above all others. Islam magnifies allah. The world church won't.
But...it all remains to be seen, eh ?
"In fact, I believe Islam will end up being the world wide religion spoken of in prophecy, complete with a false prophet.
Revelation (chapter 20, I believe) tells of those who will be "beheaded" for Jesus Christ. No other religion practices beheading."
I disagree. Islam isn't beheading Christians, they are beheading Americans and Jews. Or American Jews, like Daniel Pearl. They don't hate Jesus any more than they hate us.
I believe there will be a peace treaty brokered by a third party, the one that sits on the seven hills, wears scarlet, one that maginifies himself above all others. Islam magnifies allah. The world church won't.
But...it all remains to be seen, eh ?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Unfortunately, it is. There are Islamic madrassas up and down the Eastern Seabord of the USA that teach Muslim children to hate America and the Jews. They are protected under our Constitution. This is one method of infiltration, using our freedoms - including the freedom of speech - against us.
Terrorists live among us. </font>[/QUOTE]And don't forget the hate mongers known as Westboro Baptist Church, those who live in White Supremist Families, etc...
Must be that Islamic influence on them,...right?
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
I have already said that the only true religion of peace is Christianity. All relgions that reject Christ, including Islam, Judaism, etc... are all false religions. That does not mean, however, that all Muslims and Jews are terrorists. Some are from both groups. The reverse is also true. Just because someone says they are Christian doesn't mean they are peaceful. There is evil people who have infiltrated all religions of the world. It is not a matter of not taking a stand. It is a matter of being honest, fair, and keeping the facts in context so as not to be guilty of drfamation of an entire group of people based on the actions of some.
Joseph Botwinick
Timtoolman
New Member
Unfortunately, it is. There are Islamic madrassas up and down the Eastern Seabord of the USA that teach Muslim children to hate America and the Jews. They are protected under our Constitution. This is one method of infiltration, using our freedoms - including the freedom of speech - against us.
Terrorists live among us. </font>[/QUOTE]And don't forget the hate mongers known as Westboro Baptist Church, those who live in White Supremist Families, etc...
Must be that Islamic influence on them,...right?
Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]jb jb jb....most religeions in the USA do not teach that too hate is right. Yes there are a few extreme but we know the Bible does not teach for us to kill all who do not agreee. CAn you say the same for islamic?
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Unfortunately, it is. There are Islamic madrassas up and down the Eastern Seabord of the USA that teach Muslim children to hate America and the Jews. They are protected under our Constitution. This is one method of infiltration, using our freedoms - including the freedom of speech - against us.
Terrorists live among us. </font>[/QUOTE]And don't forget the hate mongers known as Westboro Baptist Church, those who live in White Supremist Families, etc...
Must be that Islamic influence on them,...right?
Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]jb jb jb....most religeions in the USA do not teach that too hate is right. Yes there are a few extreme but we know the Bible does not teach for us to kill all who do not agreee. CAn you say the same for islamic? </font>[/QUOTE]Tim,
1. Westboro Baptist Church does. I am quite sure there are more. If you think that because we are Americans, we are immune to extremism and hate, you are sadly mistaken. While it may be true that the majority of religions do not teach that today in America, it certainly has not been true historically in our country, unless you are going to deny the role many Baptist Churches took in slavery and segregation, and the Klan. Further, Christianity historically does not have a spotless record of human rights. Don't allow pride to go before the fall. Don't be too arrogant about your superiority over all other people of the world. It is about honesty, fairness, and context.
2. Are you referring to the whole Bible or just the New Testament? Read the whole book of Deuteronomy some time and then talk to me about what God did and did not teach about violence. I am currently reading a chapter a day in Deuteronomy and it is very eye opening and humbling.
Joseph Botwinick
T
TexasSky
Guest
We cannot lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator people. If we "hate" based on what websites say about their faith, we are no better than the worst of them.
Christ called us for better than that.
Christ called us for better than that.
Timtoolman
New Member
JB, is not your faith in Jesus Christ real?! Is it superior to ANY other teaching! I am not arrogant in my superiority it it the superiority of God and His word. AGain as usual you miss the whole pt. I do not know how else to put it. I am sure this is not rocket science.
Christians good, arab, unbelievers bad, very bad. Do you even know what descendants the arabs are from? Study your Bible and tell me what role the arabs have played, are playing and will play according to the bible. I am assuminy you are a pastor so I figure you already know.
NoT saying we are to hate arabs but lets deal with them biblically also.
Tim
AS far as your issues with God in Deuteronomy I am willing to discuss it with you. Do you think God was unjust?
[ July 07, 2005, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Timtoolman ]
Christians good, arab, unbelievers bad, very bad. Do you even know what descendants the arabs are from? Study your Bible and tell me what role the arabs have played, are playing and will play according to the bible. I am assuminy you are a pastor so I figure you already know.
NoT saying we are to hate arabs but lets deal with them biblically also.
Tim
AS far as your issues with God in Deuteronomy I am willing to discuss it with you. Do you think God was unjust?
[ July 07, 2005, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Timtoolman ]
Timtoolman
New Member
lol old habit Ken! Ha ha I meant Joeseph. Humblest apologies!
.....did I lose my way from the sports forum.....
.....did I lose my way from the sports forum.....
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Tim,
1. My name is Joseph Botwinick, in case you got confused.
2. Christ is superior. Humans, however, are not. This is the lie that unfortunately was embraced by Hitler, White Southerners in the days of Slavery and segregation, and by many white supremacist / hate gorups in America today. If you think because our nation is full of churches that claim Christianity that we are immune to hate and extremism, you are sadly wrong.
3.
4. I am not a pastor. I am a band director.
5. When you say let's deal with them Biblically, does that include labeling them as terrorists when in fact many of them are victims of terrorism themselves? Does that Biblical way of dealing with them include defamation? I am really interested in learning where you learned this in the Bible...book, chapter, and verse please.
6. God is sovereign and just. But, if you are going to claim that the Bible never taught violence, the Bible will prove you wrong.
Joseph Botwinick
1. My name is Joseph Botwinick, in case you got confused.
2. Christ is superior. Humans, however, are not. This is the lie that unfortunately was embraced by Hitler, White Southerners in the days of Slavery and segregation, and by many white supremacist / hate gorups in America today. If you think because our nation is full of churches that claim Christianity that we are immune to hate and extremism, you are sadly wrong.
3.
Let's see here. Are you saying that all Arabs are bad? That is a racist statement. Or are you saying that all Arab Unbelievers are bad? What about Jewish Unbelievers? What exactly was your point here. Please clarify and correct if you have been misunderstood or didn't effectively communicate what you really meant.
4. I am not a pastor. I am a band director.
5. When you say let's deal with them Biblically, does that include labeling them as terrorists when in fact many of them are victims of terrorism themselves? Does that Biblical way of dealing with them include defamation? I am really interested in learning where you learned this in the Bible...book, chapter, and verse please.
6. God is sovereign and just. But, if you are going to claim that the Bible never taught violence, the Bible will prove you wrong.
Joseph Botwinick
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Ken,
The night is still young. Now stop slacking on the job and hop to it....
Joseph Botwinick
The night is still young. Now stop slacking on the job and hop to it....
Joseph Botwinick
Timtoolman
New Member
Still trying to get over game 7, eh?
I've been a good boy today. I don't think I've gotten crossways with anybody on this board.
</font>[/QUOTE]Game 7...uh was there a 7....total blackout.
Timtoolman
New Member
Let's see here. Are you saying that all Arabs are bad? That is a racist statement. Or are you saying that all Arab Unbelievers are bad? What about Jewish Unbelievers? What exactly was your point here. Please clarify and correct if you have been misunderstood or didn't effectively communicate what you really meant.
4. I am not a pastor. I am a band director.
5. When you say let's deal with them Biblically, does that include labeling them as terrorists when in fact many of them are victims of terrorism themselves? Does that Biblical way of dealing with them include defamation? I am really interested in learning where you learned this in the Bible...book, chapter, and verse please.
6. God is sovereign and just. But, if you are going to claim that the Bible never taught violence, the Bible will prove you wrong.
Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Joeseph this is all total nonsense! Is the Bible correct or not, is it right or not? Are you serving the one and true God? YOu sound like someone who says there is no absolutes always chasing your tail.
I am saying what is the state of arabs biblically? Can you answer that? Whos descendants are they?
I am saying as a whole the churches do not teach that, as a nation islamic teach thier children to hate american infidels, hello! Are you comparing churches today as hitlers or me or what the heck are you trying to say?!!!
Pastor, band director, whats the difference?
...........kidding on that one. he he
I never made the claim that the bible does not have violence in it.....where did that even come up? I know God dealt severly with the arabs for thier hate of isreal.
I stand by my statement that most islams dislike us and that you comparing us to them, or us to hitler, is really looney.
Yes God is sovereign and will use any or all as he pleases what is your pt again?
Tim
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Let's see here. Are you saying that all Arabs are bad? That is a racist statement. Or are you saying that all Arab Unbelievers are bad? What about Jewish Unbelievers? What exactly was your point here. Please clarify and correct if you have been misunderstood or didn't effectively communicate what you really meant.
4. I am not a pastor. I am a band director.
5. When you say let's deal with them Biblically, does that include labeling them as terrorists when in fact many of them are victims of terrorism themselves? Does that Biblical way of dealing with them include defamation? I am really interested in learning where you learned this in the Bible...book, chapter, and verse please.
6. God is sovereign and just. But, if you are going to claim that the Bible never taught violence, the Bible will prove you wrong.
Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Joeseph this is all total nonsense! Is the Bible correct or not, is it right or not? </font>[/QUOTE]Of course the Bible is inerrant. It is the Word of God. What is your point? Christ is superior. Not all who claim Christ are. If you can find somewhere in the Bible that says otherwise, please post it here and I will retract my statement....book, chapter and verse please.
Are you serving the one and true God? YOu sound like someone who says there is no absolutes always chasing your tail.[/QUOTE]
1. Yes
2. No. I sound like someone who doesn't like demonizing a whole group of people as terrorists when many of them are actually victims of terrorism themselves. I also don't like racism. There are absolutes...they are found in the Word of God. Now, if you can find a scripture without twisting it and spiritualizing it that says that all Muslims are terrorists, then perhaps you would have a point. As it stands right now, you have meaningless gibberish which isn't worth consideration.
I am saying what is the state of arabs biblically? Can you answer that? Whos descendants are they? [/QUOTE]
All Arabs of all times are bad? All Arabs of all times are terrorists? What do you do with Arabs who have converted to Christianity? What about Iraqi Jews? I am not sure that the Bible says what you think it says. It sounds to me like you are basing your beliefs here on racist rhetoric. What a shame.
I am saying as a whole the churches do not teach that, as a nation islamic teach thier children to hate american infidels, hello! Are you comparing churches today as hitlers or me or what the heck are you trying to say?!!![/QUOTE]
Many Churches today do teach hatred and that they are members of a superior race. But, you are correct that a majority (at least as far as I know) do not teach that. You are incorrect to assume that because we are members of the Christian Church that we are immune from being infiltrated by extremists and terrorists. History shows that this is not true in the Crusades, and the racist South during slavery and segregation and the Klan. There are those who claim Christianity who do teach the same kind of hatred that Hitler taught. They teach that certain humans are superior to others because of their skin color, their religion, their whatever. There is nothing superior about me over any other human being on the face of the earth lest I should boast. Jesus is my righteousness. Aside from that, I am a totally depraved human being who is capable of all manner of evil, just as all men are. It is Jesus who is superior, not me or you. I hope you get this if you don't get anything else, lest your pride cause you to stumble.
Pastor, band director, whats the difference?
...........kidding on that one. he he[/QUOTE]
One is the human spiritual leader of the Church and the other teaches music to middle school and high school kids.
I never made the claim that the bible does not have violence in it.....where did that even come up? I know God dealt severly with the arabs for thier hate of isreal. [/QUOTE]
1. It came up when you made the following statement:
Now, perhaps you meant to say the New Testament and not the Bible as a whole? Was there a misunderstanding?
2. God dealt severely with all who disobeyed his law, including Israel.
I stand by my statement that most islams dislike us and that you comparing us to them, or us to hitler, is really looney.[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand. I am not saying that all Christians are hate-filled terrorists, just as not all Muslims are not. This is a matter of being honest, fair, and not defaming an entire group of people based on the actions of some. It is not fair to do so to anyone. Not all Muslims are Jihadists Martyrs just as not all Christians are Crusaders, racists, slave owners, or hate-mongers like Fred Phelps. But, the truth is the truth. If we are gonna be honest and fair about it, we will have to admit that we have false prophets (Benny Hinn, etc...), extremists terrorists (Crusaders, KKK, White Supremecists), and hate mongers (Fred Phelps) who historically claimed (and still do in some of those cases) Christianity as their religion of choice, and even use scripture from our own Bible to justify their sin and hatred. If we wish for folks of other religions to give us the benefit of the doubt that they do not represent true Christianity, perhaps we could offer that same benefit of the doubt to others in other religions. Otherwise, we are nothing more than self-righteous, arrogant, proud, and puffed hypocrites who think we are superior to other human beings and immune from sin and extremism, when in reality, we are no better than they are save for the fact that by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ, we have been saved from our sins. It is not us who are superior, it is Jesus. It is not they who are inferior. It is their false gods. If you cannot understand that, then there is nothing I can do for you but pray for God to open your eyes.
Yes God is sovereign and will use any or all as he pleases what is your pt again?
Tim [/QUOTE]
You asked me if I thought God was unjust. I answered it. There was no point there.
Finally, I will finish by re-stating this question to you, as you seem to have avoided it in your last post:
Joseph Botwinick
[ July 08, 2005, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: Joseph_Botwinick ]
Muslims Face a Test Today
The London transit bombings happened on a Thursday. Islam's holiest day of the week is Friday. That's when the most important sermons -- known as khutbas -- are delivered in mosques everywhere.
And that's why Muslims everywhere face a test in the next several hours. Assuming we're serious that Islam means peace, we must demand that our Friday khutbas denounce the London terrorist explosions in unambiguous and unqualified terms.
Here's what I predict will happen instead. The preachers will express condolences for the victims and condemnations of the criminals. Then they'll add, "But Britain should have never invited this kind of response by joining America in the invasion of Iraq."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/irshad-manji/muslims-face-a-test-today_3816.html#comments
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/contributors/bio.php?nick=irshad-manji&name=Irshad%20Manji