Isn't it true that God has used the NIV Just as much as the KJV, Past 35 yrs?

[Salty]

That is not the point and you know it. The point is that KJVO folks are continuously accused of causing division, when in reality it is often the opponents of KJVO that start the trouble and will not let the issue rest.

The division is that KJO teaches that the KJV is the only version to be used. Most Non-KJO folks have no problem with you using the KJ, in fact many of us use it as well. As I stated before, show me in Scripture that the KJV is the only version to be used.

All we ask is that you respect us to read Gods Holy Word in a version/translation/parapharse that we see fit.

 

[annsni]

Winman...that is an excellent demonstration of the source of division and discord right here on the Baptist Board. Proverbs chapter 6 speaks directly to this kind of thing as follows:

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. (emphasis mine)

As I see it..all we are trying to do is convince people that there is a Bible, the Word of God, in our day, that people can trust as accurate and reliable as well as inspired and preserved....yet we are continually accused of being the ones who are the sowers of discord. I do get a bit tired of being reviled so much but I guess it goes with this territory. The evidence we have seen over the years that supports our position is rock solid.... but it will always leave us at an impasse with those who take the contrary position. All we can do is pray that God will somehow open their eyes and give them the light that He gave us. We must be firm in our belief, yet humble and not arrogant :tear: as some seem to be (on BOTH sides of the argument). I have said before and will repeat here how thankful I will be that God will make it all plain to those of us who know Him at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg:saint:

Hmmm - who is sowing discord? The ones dissing the Word of God or those saying that the Word of God is true - in many versions.

As for "rock solid evidence", have you ever seen the fake rocks that they use on movie sets - the ones made of styrofoam? Yeah - that's the rock solid you've got. There is not one shred of evidence that the KJVOliers use that is true and valid.

 

[annsni]

The only thing festering and lingering around here is YOU.

Really? You can't argue so you attack?

 

[Winman]

Really? You can't argue so you attack?

Have you seen how many threads designed to cause debate over KJVO he has started in the last month alone?

This guy is nothing but a trouble maker, yet folks who are KJVO are continuosly accused of causing division. It is not the KJVOs that are causing division, it is the anti-KJVOs that are causing division.

He is the one attacking KJVOs continuously, you need to speak to him, not me.

 

[Salty]

Have you seen how many threads designed to cause debate over KJVO he has started in the last month alone?

This guy is nothing but a trouble maker, yet folks who are KJVO are continuosly accused of causing division. It is not the KJVOs that are causing division, it is the anti-KJVOs that are causing division.

He is the one attacking KJVOs continuously, you need to speak to him, not me.

Sounds like you are defending him.

 

[annsni]

Have you seen how many threads designed to cause debate over KJVO he has started in the last month alone?

This guy is nothing but a trouble maker, yet folks who are KJVO are continuosly accused of causing division. It is not the KJVOs that are causing division, it is the anti-KJVOs that are causing division.

He is the one attacking KJVOs continuously, you need to speak to him, not me.

Yes, he's discussing some of the arguments that KJVO have brought up. If the KJVO camp didn't argue, he wouldn't need to post the threads.

I read his OP. I don't see any "discord" or "cause debate" here. He was just asking a legitimate question.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Agree where we can...be silent where we can't?

Hmmm - who is sowing discord? The ones dissing the Word of God or those saying that the Word of God is true - in many versions.

Ann... you know we can't agree with the "many versions" position anymore than you can agree "KJV Only" position. However, since most sane Christian people don't regard this as a matter pertinent to being saved or not ( I know there are some who take the extreme position that one can't be truly saved unless they are reading a KJV...I don't personally accept that) can we just try to stay peaceful with one another and AT LEAST agree that the KJV is God's Word? For my part, I'm willing to respect you enough to respect your right to use any Bible you choose. It is an issue that is primarily between each individual believer and God. I just don't feel at all comfortable (myself) with using any other English Bible.....

As for "rock solid evidence", have you ever seen the fake rocks that they use on movie sets - the ones made of styrofoam? Yeah - that's the rock solid you've got. There is not one shred of evidence that the KJVOliers use that is true and valid.

I respectfully disagree with you. I would never have adopted the position I hold had I not seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that supported my belief. I would NOT want to deliberately choose a path that dishonored God or led me to doubt even one word in His Book. The "supporting evidence" in support of the CT/MV's was not compelling to me nor did it have the ring of truth to me. There are no clear Bible verses IN ANY VERSION (including the KJV or ANY of the MV's) that clearly dictate which version one should be using (in English). Either position is dependent on EXTRA-BIBLICAL external Manuscript Evidence that is subject to interpretation by people who have dedicated their lives to the study of the matter. We just disagree on the matter of which group of "experts", "scholars", or linguists we have chosen to accept as most accurate. I think the evidence I have accepted IS rock solid. It tells me I have a Bible in my hand that is without error and worthy of my complete confidence. I prefer to continue to believe that. Anyone else is free to follow the "light" they believe they have as well. I mean you nor anyone else here any ill-will.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Have you seen how many threads designed to cause debate over KJVO he has started in the last month alone?

Let's get this thread back on topic please. It is, after all, a forum for debate of versions and translations. The topic here is not a poster who chooses to open debate.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Impossible question to answer....?

Let's get this thread back on topic please. It is, after all, a forum for debate of versions and translations. The topic here is not a poster who chooses to open debate.

Ok Roger....let me be the first to try to head back there. My personal opinion is that the OP asks a question that may be impossible to actually answer. When the question of usage is asked are we talking about tangible, measurable spiritual fruit ....and how do you accurately quantify that?...or are we talking raw sales numbers (which may be somewhat easier to document).....which are pretty much meaningless. In my opinion, there is no way that the NIV could ever pass the KJV (in just 35 years) in either category. If the NIV has by chance outsold the KJV over the last 35 years it is only because it was heavily promoted via modern advertizing methods. I get the regular printed sales circulars from the local Christian Bookstore here. They heavily promote the MV's, NIV included, but you have to dig hard these days to find any mention of the KJV in their print ads. I don't know about other countries but Americans are suckers for slick advertizing. I know...I used to sell advertizing for a living! I had to give it up because you have to be a professional liar of sorts to be successful at it. I got to the place (thank God) where I could no linger abide with that!

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Ok Roger....let me be the first to try to head back there. My personal opinion is that the OP asks a question that may be impossible to actually answer. When the question of usage is asked are we talking about tangible, measurable spiritual fruit ....and how do you accurately quantify that?...or are we talking raw sales numbers (which may be somewhat easier to document).....which are pretty much meaningless. In my opinion, there is no way that the NIV could ever pass the KJV (in just 35 years) in either category. If the NIV has by chance outsold the KJV over the last 35 years it is only because it was heavily promoted via modern advertizing methods. I get the regular printed sales circulars from the local Christian Bookstore here. They heavily promote the MV's, NIV included, but you have to dig hard these days to find any mention of the KJV in their print ads. I don't know about other countries but Americans are suckers for slick advertizing. I know...I used to sell advertizing for a living! I had to give it up because you have to be a professional liar of sorts to be successful at it. I got to the place (thank God) where I could no linger abide with that!

Bro.Greg:saint:

I agree that this question posted in the OP, like a couple of others in the same vein, are impossible to answer. We just don't have the facts. I am not sure how helpful the question in this OP is.

My point is that God is not limited by translations. He is just as capable of bring revival or renewal through the NIV (I am no fan of it BTW) as any other accurate translation. God commutes His word to man through the power of the Holy Spirit and that is not contingent on which translation.

Also BTW, it is not easy to find an AV here in book stores or even churches, and yet God is still at work.

Believe it or not most people I deal with here cannot make any sense of the AV language. When they get saved it is not like some light bulb comes on and they say ''Oh. not I understand what 'fetcht a compass', and 'ye are a peculiar people' and 'be careful for nothing' mean. Of course God can work through that, but He can also work through more modern translations.

 

[Baptist4life]

Believe it or not most people I deal with here cannot make any sense of the AV language. When they get saved it is not like some light bulb comes on and they say ''Oh. not I understand what 'fetcht a compass', and 'ye are a peculiar people' and 'be careful for nothing' mean. Of course God can work through that, but He can also work through more modern translations.

When I was in school, I (at first) didn't understand many of the words in my science book. "Metamorphosis" was one. However, my teacher didn't stop using that science book just because his students couldn't understand it. We LEARNED what those words meant. I see no difference in the KJV. I taught 4th grade Sunday School for quite awhile using the KJV. My students had no difficulty learning the meaning. Sorry, I hear that excuse all the time, but I just don't believe it. People have used the KJV for over 400 years, and all of a sudden, "We can't understand it"?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

When I was in school, I (at first) didn't understand many of the words in my science book. "Metamorphosis" was one. However, my teacher didn't stop using that science book just because his students couldn't understand it. We LEARNED what those words meant. I see no difference in the KJV. I taught 4th grade Sunday School for quite awhile using the KJV. My students had no difficulty learning the meaning. Sorry, I hear that excuse all the time, but I just don't believe it. People have used the KJV for over 400 years, and all of a sudden, "We can't understand it"?

Why should anyone have to learn words that are no longer in use? Does God really want his word to be that difficult to transmit? Give a lost person here (or a new believer) a AV copy of the Bible and tell them to 'read about how much God loves you' and they are soon so befuddled they give up. I am so glad your fourth graders were so brilliant, but your average Irish person growing up in a culture where the Bible is unknown is just not dedicated enough to look up so many words that are meaningless to them.

'Roger, does the Bible really say we shouldn't be careful?' 'It does, but careful doesn't mean careful, it means anxious?' 'Why didn't God just say anxious?'

 

[Mexdeaf]

That is not the point and you know it. The point is that KJVO folks are continuously accused of causing division, when in reality it is often the opponents of KJVO that start the trouble and will not let the issue rest.

This is laughable.:laugh: Which reminds me, we need more laughing smilie choices.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This is laughable.:laugh: Which reminds me, we need more laughing smilie choices.

Please stay on topic. I'm going to have to start deleting when a poster is the topic of the post.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Please stay on topic. I'm going to have to start deleting when a poster is the topic of the post.

Sorry- I posted as I was going through the thread and missed the later warning.

:flower:

 

[Mexdeaf]

I would say we have about as much evidence for the Lord's blessing on the NIV the past 40 years as we do for the Lord's blessing on the KJV from 1611-1651.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I would say we have about as much evidence for the Lord's blessing on the NIV the past 40 years as we do for the Lord's blessing on the KJV from 1611-1651.

Yup, and I don't like the NIV

 

[Mexdeaf]

Yup, and I don't like the NIV

Neither do I. But many good Christians I know do like and use it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Neither do I. But many good Christians I know do like and use it.

It is probably the most popular version here, followed by the NLT, then the ESV, and then the NKJV. Outside of churches started by American KJVO missionaries the AV is virtually unknown.

Would that mean, do you think, that God's hands are pretty much tied here?

 

[Rippon]

I hear that excuse all the time, but I just don't believe it. People have used the KJV for over 400 years, and all of a sudden, "We can't understand it"?

It's not a sudden thing. It has been gradual which is perfectly normal for the evlovement of the English language.

The first edition of the Twentieth Century New Testament came out in 1901. The project had been in the works for about a decade before.Some of the principles in the effort said that their children could not understand the language of the KJV. There are probably a number of instances even before that time more than a century ago.