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isn't the ULTIMATE Source of salvation In Classic Arminianism Ourselves?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.Is not repenting turning away from our old life a new life, and by turning to Christ we do that?
If I have believed on Christ, has not that already been accomplished in my believing on Christ? How can that action not be accomplished in believing on the Lord Jesus Christ? Repentance is simply the flip side of faith. The NT does not command us to repent as much as it does to believe.
Aside from the Book of Acts and the gospels, can you show me where repentance is part of the gospel? The Gospels were pre-cross, and Acts is a historical book which is a book of transition. Most of our doctrine actually comes from the epistles. Where in the epistles does it tell us that repentance is part of the gospel?
I am surprised at you, bro!
The epistles were written BEFORE the end of the book of Acts. Yet near the end of the book of Acts it says that Paul, even to the Gentiles, preached repentance (26:20). Note that this is near the end of Paul's ministry, and most (if not all) of his epistles have been written.
Look at the end of the book of Revelation...the single thing that would stop the judgments, is repentance...yet they do not repent.
What does the Lord desire all of His elect to do? Why, repent!
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
What ,must opponents to the gospel do to escape the "snares of the devil"? Why repent!
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
What results in salvation? Repentance!
2Co 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Repent and believe the gospel. That is the Biblical salvation call.
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? (Romans 2:4)Ask and ye shall receive!
Apostle paul wrote about this in Romans 2:4/2 Cor 7:9/2 Tim 2:25
And hebrews 6:1/6!
thank God for bible concordances!
--This does not say that one has to repent in order to be saved.
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. (2 Corinthians 7:9)
--This is not speaking of salvation but rather the restoration of a brother in Christ, and his repentance over a specific sin.
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)
--These are Paul's instructions to Timothy on how he should behave as a teacher. The description is of believers: those that oppose or contradict themselves. We see that on this board. The repentance is not to salvation.
"if they shall fall away? Do you believe in eternal security? It is probably talking about believers. Either way it is a controversial passage not likely to be settled here.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
If I have believed on Christ, has not that already been accomplished in my believing on Christ? How can that action not be accomplished in believing on the Lord Jesus Christ? Repentance is simply the flip side of faith. The NT does not command us to repent as much as it does to believe.
Repentace is apart of our faith isn't? God shows us unrighteous and Jesus is our righteosness, until we turn from ourself and look, turn to Christ we do not even know what righteousness is or even looks like.
No, I believed. Repentance is the flip side of belief. One's life cannot change without believing. Repentance is simply a change of mind. It is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God. Once my mind was rebellious toward God. Then I believed on Christ. Now my mind is in submission to God. Repentance is the flip side of belief. One cannot repent without believing on Christ. They both happen simultaneously. I knew nothing of repentance when I believed on Christ, yet it happened. How can it not? My mind was changed toward God.Did you repent at salvation? Yes or no? I did.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
If I have believed on Christ, has not that already been accomplished in my believing on Christ? How can that action not be accomplished in believing on the Lord Jesus Christ? Repentance is simply the flip side of faith. The NT does not command us to repent as much as it does to believe.
Repentance is the hinge upon which belief turns. An unbeliever has his faith placed in the world. He chases after sin. In order to have faith in Christ, he must simultaneously turn away from this, "swinging" his faith from the world, self, and sin, unto Christ.
The problem would not be so pronounced, if you used a more accurate word for "pisteuo" nouns and verbs. "Belief" is not an accurate translation anymore. Our present world has divorced "belief" from any consequence. Pistueo is not just believing in the existence of something, or having a mental assent. It is placing ones self under the authority of something. A submissive trust.
preacher4truth
Active Member
No, I believed. Repentance is the flip side of belief. One's life cannot change without believing. Repentance is simply a change of mind. It is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God. Once my mind was rebellious toward God. Then I believed on Christ. Now my mind is in submission to God. Repentance is the flip side of belief. One cannot repent without believing on Christ. They both happen simultaneously. I knew nothing of repentance when I believed on Christ, yet it happened. How can it not? My mind was changed toward God.
So, yes, you did repent. This repentance showed forth you believed, it was granted by God Himself. As to all who are saved. it is preached today, souls saved. There is no salvation without it.
Also, there are some that believe it, but yet refuse to repent, sorrowfully.
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Can you show me a single verse in the Bible which commands a sinner to repent of his sins. This is the general invitation of a preacher, the altar call so to speak. It is his definition of repentance. It is totally unbiblical.Repentance is the hinge upon which belief turns. An unbeliever has his faith placed in the world. He chases after sin. In order to have faith in Christ, he must simultaneously turn away from this, "swinging" his faith from the world, self, and sin, unto Christ.
Can you remember all your sins so that you can enumerate them to the Lord one by one in order to repent of each one. Yet this is what preachers tell the unsaved. Repent of your sins and be saved. There is no such concept in Scripture.
No, it isn't. You have a wrong view of repentance, and none of the verses you quoted have anything to do with salvation.I am surprised at you, bro!
The epistles were written BEFORE the end of the book of Acts. Yet near the end of the book of Acts it says that Paul, even to the Gentiles, preached repentance (26:20). Note that this is near the end of Paul's ministry, and most (if not all) of his epistles have been written.
Look at the end of the book of Revelation...the single thing that would stop the judgments, is repentance...yet they do not repent.
What does the Lord desire all of His elect to do? Why, repent!
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
What ,must opponents to the gospel do to escape the "snares of the devil"? Why repent!
2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
What results in salvation? Repentance!
2Co 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
Rom 2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Repent and believe the gospel. That is the Biblical salvation call.
Can you show me a single verse in the Bible which commands a sinner to repent of his sins. This is the general invitation of a preacher, the altar call so to speak. It is his definition of repentance. It is totally unbiblical.
Can you remember all your sins so that you can enumerate them to the Lord one by one in order to repent of each one. Yet this is what preachers tell the unsaved. Repent of your sins and be saved. There is no such concept in Scripture.
Yes there is. First of all, repenting from your sins (plural) and repenting from an individual sin, are two different things. The first is turning away from a life in opposition to God. It is not necessary to "enumerate" all of your sins to God. It is simply necessary to turn away from chasing them, and instead turning to chase after God.
What is the beginning of the Christian life, the foundation? Paul tells us (at least, in my opinion it is Paul)
Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Repentance FROM a lifestyle TO faith in Christ.
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,
Rev 9:21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Rev 16:9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.
Rev 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Can you show me a single verse in the Bible which commands a sinner to repent of his sins...
Certainly
Acts 17:30, 31...
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
It's an imperative.
2 Peter 3:9 is most certainly salvific repentance.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Repented
I didn't repent when i turned to God, but when i turned to Jesus i repented for my sins put Him on the cross. That He suffered for me, not calling out a sin, but realizing me a sinner and what I did cause.
I didn't repent when i turned to God, but when i turned to Jesus i repented for my sins put Him on the cross. That He suffered for me, not calling out a sin, but realizing me a sinner and what I did cause.
Certainly
Acts 17:30, 31...
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
It's an imperative.
2 Peter 3:9 is most certainly salvific repentence.
As is 2 Cor 7:9-10, which states it plainly.
preacher4truth
Active Member
As is 2 Cor 7:9-10, which states it plainly.
Yup.
We had a fellow that went around teaching that only the Jews had to repent...blah blah blah...not us (Gentiles).
Uh? Ever read Numbers and how that the stranger and native BOTH observe the passover the same way, that they are both accepted in the same manner. This picture is given for a reason.
There is no difference to the Jew, or Greek. ALL are commanded to repent.
I asked Mr. SS teacher what would be at stake if we removed repentance, especially in todays world. He blushed. And he got a quick case of "stop it" concerning his error. That, and some sharing of God's Word.
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No it doesn't. Don't take Scripture out of context. Where does 2Cor.7 talk about the salvation of an individual?As is 2 Cor 7:9-10, which states it plainly.
No it doesn't. Don't take Scripture out of context. Where does 2Cor.7 talk about the salvation of an individual?
10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.
Notice in my challenge to you I asked specifically to find verses in the epistles, not in the gospels or in the Book of Acts. The sermon by Paul in Acts 17 was to a definite group of people where he stands pointing to an unnamed idol and addresses it as the "Unknown God," something we wouldn't do today. It is a historical book, a transitional book, not known for its doctrine.Certainly
Acts 17:30, 31...
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
It's an imperative.
2 Peter 3:9 is most certainly salvific repentence.
The verse in 2Pet.3:9 is an expression of God's general will. If true then all men would be saved. But we know that is not going to happen. Furthermore his will is not that they "repent," but that they "come to repentance," future tense. There is a difference. In the NT, repentance is always toward God. It is not from sin. If we push the concept of repenting from sins, we start pushing a works based salvation.
Keep studying the passage. This was about the discipline of a particular member of the church. Had he not repented of his sin it may well have resulted in physical death. The word "salvation," in that context is referring to physical salvation. Believers don't have to be saved again and again and again.10 For godly grief produces a repentance not to be regretted and leading to salvation, but worldly grief produces death.
Not one of your verses are from the epistles, are they?Yes there is. First of all, repenting from your sins (plural) and repenting from an individual sin, are two different things. The first is turning away from a life in opposition to God. It is not necessary to "enumerate" all of your sins to God. It is simply necessary to turn away from chasing them, and instead turning to chase after God.
What is the beginning of the Christian life, the foundation? Paul tells us (at least, in my opinion it is Paul)
Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Repentance FROM a lifestyle TO faith in Christ.
Act 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,
Rev 9:21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Rev 16:9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.
Rev 16:11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds.
And the one in Hebrews has already been refuted.
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