Israel’s Restoration?

[Covenanter]

I said earlier that the promises to Israel are to redeemed Israel which in the future shall be called out of secular Israel.

The are virtually hundreds of unfulfilled promises to Israel which no amount of allegorical redefinition can satisfy.

What do you make of Paul's allegory -

Gal. 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.​

 

[HankD]

What do you make of Paul's allegory -

Gal. 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.​

Those who look to the law for righteousness are actually slaves to sin while those saved by grace through faith are free from sin.
BTW, One scriptural allegory does not necessarily cancel out a multi-layered account of truth

 

[1689Dave]

yes, and those are the natural Jews that are to be saved at the time of the Second Coming of Christ!

Only through faith in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Only through faith in Christ.

Yes, as the nation still alive will be reborn in a day!

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, as the nation still alive will be reborn in a day!

We are the nation God grafts them into by faith. See Rom. 11.

 

[Yeshua1]

We are the nation God grafts them into by faith. See Rom. 11.

Within spiritual israel, there are spiritual Jews, and spiritual Gentiles.

 

[1689Dave]

Within spiritual israel, there are spiritual Jews, and spiritual Gentiles.

Not so. This was true in the OT but God removed all the unbelievers (Rom. 11). Only believers remained. It is into these God will graft the broken off through faith in Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not so. This was true in the OT but God removed all the unbelievers (Rom. 11). Only believers remained. It is into these God will graft the broken off through faith in Christ.

We are still jewish or geniles when saved!

 

[1689Dave]

We are still jewish or geniles when saved!

Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Since then, the means of becoming physical Jew or physical member of Israel no longer existed. These are all gentiles by default. And are grafted in by faith in Christ during the times of the gentiles.

 

[Yeshua1]

Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. Since then, the means of becoming physical Jew or physical member of Israel no longer existed. These are all gentiles by default. And are grafted in by faith in Christ during the times of the gentiles.

There are Jews and gentiles, but all now one in Christ!

 

[1689Dave]

There are Jews and gentiles, but all now one in Christ!

Technically Jews are a false religion, not a race. When Christ converts them they become Christians.

 

[Yeshua1]

Technically Jews are a false religion, not a race. When Christ converts them they become Christians.

Whoa re the majority of those in Israel then?

 

[1689Dave]

Whoa re the majority of those in Israel then?

Self proclaimed Israel, not biblical Israel which is Christendom. They are defrocked Jews, now gentiles trodding down Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

 

[Yeshua1]

Self proclaimed Israel, not biblical Israel which is Christendom. They are defrocked Jews, now gentiles trodding down Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

Nope, we are the Gentiles trodding down jerusalem, as your real mkistake is not seeing that Jews still means Jews!

 

[1689Dave]

Nope, we are the Gentiles trodding down jerusalem, as your real mkistake is not seeing that Jews still means Jews!

When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or a physical member of Israel.

 

[Yeshua1]

When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or a physical member of Israel.

Jesus and Paul means that there is no difference in either Jew of Genile being saved by Grace of same Messiah, NOT that physical Jews no longer existed!

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus and Paul means that there is no difference in either Jew of Genile being saved by Grace of same Messiah, NOT that physical Jews no longer existed!

They cannot exist without circumcision.

 

[robycop3]

The nation of Israel today is actually the nation of JUDAH. The Jews consist of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. but God said He will make the nation of israel whole again, re-joining the Jews to the rest of the tribes. Here's the Scriptural proof from Ezekiel 37:


15 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

These verses follow the famous vision of the bones coming together, etc., which God says represents the WHOLE nation of Israel.

I believe these Scriptures are pretty plain about what God is gonna do with Israel and Judah. people may guess & speculate about these things, but as for me, I will ACCEPT GOD'S WORDS AS WRITTEN, & not try to add nor subtract any other meanings from them.

 

[Yeshua1]

The nation of Israel today is actually the nation of JUDAH. The Jews consist of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. but God said He will make the nation of israel whole again, re-joining the Jews to the rest of the tribes. Here's the Scriptural proof from Ezekiel 37:


15 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

These verses follow the famous vision of the bones coming together, etc., which God says represents the WHOLE nation of Israel.

I believe these Scriptures are pretty plain about what God is gonna do with Israel and Judah. people may guess & speculate about these things, but as for me, I will ACCEPT GOD'S WORDS AS WRITTEN, & not try to add nor subtract any other meanings from them.

The Great Tribulation will be terible times forthe jewish people, as 2/3 of the nation will die in end times, but those remaining shall receive/accept jesus as messiah at Second Coming!

 

[1689Dave]

The nation of Israel today is actually the nation of JUDAH. The Jews consist of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. but God said He will make the nation of israel whole again, re-joining the Jews to the rest of the tribes. Here's the Scriptural proof from Ezekiel 37:


15 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

18 “And when the children of your people speak to you, saying, ‘Will you not show us what you mean by these?’— 19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’ 20 And the sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes.

21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

These verses follow the famous vision of the bones coming together, etc., which God says represents the WHOLE nation of Israel.

I believe these Scriptures are pretty plain about what God is gonna do with Israel and Judah. people may guess & speculate about these things, but as for me, I will ACCEPT GOD'S WORDS AS WRITTEN, & not try to add nor subtract any other meanings from them.

The problem is, when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, nothing remained to make one a physical member of Israel/Judah. All of the broken off branches became gentiles by default. Only to be reattached through faith in Christ, he is true Israel.