Israel’s Restoration?

[1689Dave]

Paul was speaking of following the Mosaic law while not coming to Jesus, and circumcision was the first act of the law upon newborn males. I believe his words were meant for both Jew and gentile who chose to follow the Old Covenent, beginning with circumcision of adult males who'd never undergone it.

When I was circumcised shortly after birth, I remained mostly of British ancestry, with 1/16 Ute Indian blood. I did NOT become a physical Jew. I remained a circumcised gentile.

And I remained physically such after I was saved. I became part of SPIRITUAL Israel, but not a PHYSICAL Israeli unless the "British = tribe of Ephraim" theory is true.

Circumcision made one Abraham's covenant seed, not birth. Because over 300 of his servants and their families became covenant seed through circumcision at a time when only Ishmael was related to him. Circumcision as it related to God's command to circumcise made one Abraham's covenant seed. Not just any circumcision.

 

[1689Dave]

1689dave, here's something you need to realize and accept: A Jew is a physical, literal descendant of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi, three of Jacob's sons. "Jew" is a handle for "Judean". These are a people defined by their ancestry, and are a distinct people, diverse from other Caucasians, same as Navajos, Cherokees, or Shoshonis are all American Indians, but are diverse from one another.

Circumcision or lack thereof does not now define a Jew. ANCESTRY does. I am circumcised, but definitely not a Jew.

Sammy Davis Jr. practiced Judaism, but he was not a literal Jew. Zola Levitt is a Christian, but he's still a literal Jew by ancestry.

The Jews are a DISTINCT, LITERAL PEOPLE! Let that soak in! To say otherwise is to deny Scripture, some of which I presented a few posts back.

God has repeatedly said He's gonna restore both Israel and Judah & make them one great nation. That is in accordance to the promises He made to Abraham. And He steered both the birthright and rulership to Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's sons. he then steered the birthright to Joseph, then to Joseph's sons by his Egyptian wife, Ephraim & Manassah, and the rulership to Judah.

Later, when God split Judah from the rest of Israel, the Levites, having been deposed by Jeroboam from being priests, migrated to Judah's land, while Benjamin, the smallest of the 12 tribes, remained loyal to Judah & David's dynasty. The Benjaminites were especially welcome to the Judeans, as they were formidable archers & slingers, many of them being left-handed.

The term "Jews" first appears in the KJV & several other versions in 2 Kings 16:6. Again, it's just a handle for "Judean". or "Jehudite" That vewrse is the first place in Scripture the Hebrew term "Yĕhuwdiy" appears.

Israel and Judah were first counted separately in 1 samuel 11:8 though God had not yet physically separated them.

You may read Isaiah 11 to see God's first promising to restore both Israel and Judah. then in Jeremiah 31 & 33, and Jeremiah 50, as well as the verses from Ezekiel 37 I posted earlier. Yes, there's quite a bit of Scripture in which God says He will restore Israel and Judah back into one nation & make it great. that wouldn't be possible if the Jews didn't exist, and that's why I reject all the foolishness saying the jews are extinct.

IT'S SIMPLY AGAINST SCRIPTURE ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Abraham's seed, over 300 of them and their families were not related to him except for Ishmael and later Isaac. Isaac and then Jacob inherited all of them. Only 70+ relatives of Jacob went into Egypt yet they needed the entire land of Goshen to live in. And they came out 400 some years later a mixed multitude (Exodus 12:38), all circumcised members of Israel (Joshua 5:5.) In Esther “....many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” (Esther 8:17)

 

[Yeshua1]

Abraham's seed, over 300 of them and their families were not related to him except for Ishmael and later Isaac. Isaac and then Jacob inherited all of them. Only 70+ relatives of Jacob went into Egypt yet they needed the entire land of Goshen to live in. And they came out 400 some years later a mixed multitude (Exodus 12:38), all circumcised members of Israel (Joshua 5:5.) In Esther “....many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” (Esther 8:17)

So physical Jews who get saved now change to being gentiles, or is it that we chnage to being jewish?

 

[Covenanter]

I cant take anyone seriously who thinks it all happened in AD 70, who deny a literal return of Christ.

Thinking it all happened in AD 70 does not preclude a literal return of Christ at the end of the present Gospel age of grace. .

The Secoming Coming will NOT be invisible, and all will know that it happened, all eyes shall see him, not in AD 70!

The final coming, the return of Christ will be at the end of the present Gospel age of grace. All will know it, the living, the saved dead, & the unsaved dead. All will rise at his coming in the sequence indicated in 1 Cor. 15.

I agree. The "70s AD thingie" is a false preterist view, invented by men.

What DID happen in 70 AD was the "days of vengeance" punishment upon the Jews, which is, of course, separate from Jesus' approaching parousia.

The AD 70s coming is taught by the Lord Jesus in his Olivet prophecy which would take place in the lifetime of the generation that rejected him. Those "days of vengeance" brought to absolute end of the corrupt nation of Israel.

However, the Covenant "holy nation" of Israel was restored when at Pentecost when thousands of Jews & other dispersed Israelites from all round the empire responded to the NC Gospel message. thousands more were added, continually, including priests & Pharisees.

Exo. 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.​

So physical Jews who get saved now change to being gentiles, or is it that we chnage to being jewish?

Y1, you do specialise in writing absolute rubbish.

Saved Jews & Gentiles become together the believing seed of Abraham by faith, the Israel of God, not by circumcision nor ethnicity but by faith in Christ.

Try reading the whole of Romans, not just a few verses in Rom. 11. If you include Rom. 15 in your reading, you will see these verses -

7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written:

‘Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles;
I will sing the praises of your name.’​

10 Again, it says,

‘Rejoice, you Gentiles, with his people.’​

11 And again,

‘Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles;
let all the peoples extol him.’​

12 And again, Isaiah says,

‘The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
in him the Gentiles will hope.’​

13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
​

Looking for an earthly future for carnal Israel amounts to a rejection of the fulfilment of God's Covenant promises in the Lord Jesus Christ through the Gospel.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thinking it all happened in AD 70 does not preclude a literal return of Christ at the end of the present Gospel age of grace. .



The final coming, the return of Christ will be at the end of the present Gospel age of grace. All will know it, the living, the saved dead, & the unsaved dead. All will rise at his coming in the sequence indicated in 1 Cor. 15.



The AD 70s coming is taught by the Lord Jesus in his Olivet prophecy which would take place in the lifetime of the generation that rejected him. Those "days of vengeance" brought to absolute end of the corrupt nation of Israel.

However, the Covenant "holy nation" of Israel was restored when at Pentecost when thousands of Jews & other dispersed Israelites from all round the empire responded to the NC Gospel message. thousands more were added, continually, including priests & Pharisees.

Exo. 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.​

Y1, you do specialise in writing absolute rubbish.

Saved Jews & Gentiles become together the believing seed of Abraham by faith, the Israel of God, not by circumcision nor ethnicity but by faith in Christ.

Try reading the whole of Romans, not just a few verses in Rom. 11. If you include Rom. 15 in your reading, you will see these verses -

7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written:

‘Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles;
I will sing the praises of your name.’​

10 Again, it says,

‘Rejoice, you Gentiles, with his people.’​

11 And again,

‘Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles;
let all the peoples extol him.’​

12 And again, Isaiah says,

‘The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
in him the Gentiles will hope.’​

13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.​

Looking for an earthly future for carnal Israel amounts to a rejection of the fulfilment of God's Covenant promises in the Lord Jesus Christ through the Gospel.

God has not forever cut off Israel, for at His second coming, the nation shall be reborn on that same day!

 

[1689Dave]

So physical Jews who get saved now change to being gentiles, or is it that we chnage to being jewish?

Judaism is a religion. Jew are those who practice it. Jews are not a race. Bloodline did not make one a Jew. Circumcision did. Any not circumcised was cut off whether born of Isaac or not.

 

[Covenanter]

God has not forever cut off Israel, for at His second coming, the nation shall be reborn on that same day!

Have you any Scriptures for your tweeted assertion ???

THe holy nation of Israel was reborn by the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you any Scriptures for your tweeted assertion ???

THe holy nation of Israel was reborn by the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost

Ezekiel 37-38, still future event!

 

[robycop3]

Abraham's seed, over 300 of them and their families were not related to him except for Ishmael and later Isaac. Isaac and then Jacob inherited all of them. Only 70+ relatives of Jacob went into Egypt yet they needed the entire land of Goshen to live in. And they came out 400 some years later a mixed multitude (Exodus 12:38), all circumcised members of Israel (Joshua 5:5.) In Esther “....many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” (Esther 8:17)

They became Jews by RELIGION, not PHYSICAL Jews. They remained Medes, Persians, or whatever they physically were before.

 

[1689Dave]

They became Jews by RELIGION, not PHYSICAL Jews. They remained Medes, Persians, or whatever they physically were before.

Judaism is a religion not a race. Converts to Judaism are Jews.

 

[robycop3]

Have you any Scriptures for your tweeted assertion ???

THe holy nation of Israel was reborn by the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost

Oh, REALLY?

Sorry, but the Romans didn't go away til about 400 years later - long after Hadrian had dispersed the Jews in 135-136 AD & given their land to the Philistines. (Today's Palestinians. "Palestinian" is Latin for "Philistine". Don't believe me? Ask any Latin expert!)

Judah (Not actual Israel despite using that name) wasn't reborn til May 1948.

 

[robycop3]

Judaism is a religion not a race. Converts to Judaism are Jews.

MMRRPP! WRONG!

SCRIPTURE proves otherwise!

 

[1689Dave]

MMRRPP! WRONG!

SCRIPTURE proves otherwise!

Please post any scripture confirming your position.

 

[robycop3]

I posted them once. from Ezekiel 37. Now, please post Scripture that sez Jews are extinct.

 

[1689Dave]

I posted them once. from Ezekiel 37. Now, please post Scripture that sez Jews are extinct.

This passage represents Christ's present reign in heavenly Jerusalem on David's throne. And the New Birth of Israel (believers) under Christ. But he says Israel's (our) restoration is the resurrection on the last day. It is then we enter the New Heavens and Earth forever. The millennium theory does not adequately cover this because it is only 1000 years and not forever.

 

[terrpn]

The thing that is unknown is the day and hour of the Advent? It's flexible, not fixed as the Books of Acts has not taken place yet. That date could have taken place in Acts up till about chapter 7 where it then moves on.

How long the kingdom is postponed I do believe what we see going on around us we can understand the days are getting shorter

However trying to figure out those days in Daniel is something we should all consider.

I''m not waiting on a SIGN, but a SHOUT!

Of course 1 Thes. 5:1-6 kind of says otherwise...........

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

 

[Covenanter]

THe holy nation of Israel was reborn by the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost

Oh, REALLY?

Sorry, but the Romans didn't go away til about 400 years later - long after Hadrian had dispersed the Jews in 135-136 AD & given their land to the Philistines. (Today's Palestinians. "Palestinian" is Latin for "Philistine". Don't believe me? Ask any Latin expert!)

Judah (Not actual Israel despite using that name) wasn't reborn til May 1948.

I posted them once. from Ezekiel 37. Now, please post Scripture that sez Jews are extinct.

The interpretation of Ezekiel & the other exile/pre-exile prophets is a challenge until we realise that the prophecies are dealing with real people & real situations. They are therefore given in terms of the Babylonian destruction & exile, & the restoration & rebuilding after the exile.

The language goes beyond that immediate situation in terms of the Messiah, his saving work, Pentecost & the calling initially of the Jews by the Gospel. The promises to the Patriarchs counted in all nations on earth through the Seed of Abraham - Christ.

The present Gospel age is the time during which the worldwide Gospel is calling saving sinners from all nations (including Jews) into the church which is described by Peter as comprising a holy nation. (1 Peter 2) Peter uses expressions that the LORD used when making the Old Covenant with Israel. (Exodus 19

Eze. 36 prophecies the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31 & Hebrews 8) saving work seen at Pentecost -

24 ‘“For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God.​

As Peter explains in 2 Peter 3, the time scale is indefinite, & all will be perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE. Note Rev. 21 -

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ​

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[Squire Robertsson]

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