Israel and the Church Contrasted

[savedbymercy]

br

Paul tells the Christians in Galatia that the Law given in the OT was given to lead to Christ

Thats what I already stated ! It was given for the sake of the Election of Grace in national israel to lead them to Faith in Christ which it was successful in doing !

The moral law in general was to work that same purpose to the Gentile Elect outside of the boundries of israel nationally, for they had the moral law wriiten in their consciences Rom 2:14-15

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law[of moses], do by nature the things contained in the law[moral law], these, having not the law[of moses], are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

The Seed of Abraham outside of the nation of israel, they also had God's Moral Law, but it was just not as in the formal way the nation had received it !

But nevertheless, the Purpose of the Law was to lead the Elect of God, jew or Gentile to Faith in their Redeemer !

You did not have to be a jew by ethnicity to belong to the promised seed of Abraham,God told him this Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.


Thats a Spiritual Father, a Type of Christ !

 

[savedbymercy]

The Same People under different testaments !

The Church in the OT and the Church, the Body of Christ in the NT are the same People, the Church the Body of Christ, but under different dispensations. Several scriptures bare this out, such as when Paul writing to the Church @ Corinth, that portion of the Body of Christ, he writes this 1 Cor 10:1-11

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Now notice Vs 4, that Rock was Christ, the Head of His Body the Church, 1 Cor 11:3;12:12

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And Christ is the same in all three texts here quoted, the Head of the Church. He is the same as stated here Heb 13:8

Jesus Christ[The Head of His Body] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And Paul relates the experiences of the OT Church and Body of Christ See Acts 7:38 Cp 1 Cor 10:4

he relates the OT Church as examples for the NT Church to learn from 1 Cor 10:6

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we [The Church]should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.546

 

[Yeshua1]

The Church in the OT and the Church, the Body of Christ in the NT are the same People, the Church the Body of Christ, but under different dispensations. Several scriptures bare this out, such as when Paul writing to the Church @ Corinth, that portion of the Body of Christ, he writes this 1 Cor 10:1-11



Now notice Vs 4, that Rock was Christ, the Head of His Body the Church, 1 Cor 11:3;12:12

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And Christ is the same in all three texts here quoted, the Head of the Church. He is the same as stated here Heb 13:8

Jesus Christ[The Head of His Body] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

And Paul relates the experiences of the OT Church and Body of Christ See Acts 7:38 Cp 1 Cor 10:4

he relates the OT Church as examples for the NT Church to learn from 1 Cor 10:6

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we [The Church]should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.546

The Church was founded at Pentacost, and the nation of Isreal was NOT that!

ireal in the bible is still referring to national isreal, while the Church is still the Church!

 

[BobRyan]

Paul tells the Christians in Galatia that the Law given in the OT was given to lead to Christ -- but he tells them that the Law condemns all mankind first - not as a gospel in itself - but as a teacher - teaching the lost that they need salvation.

It has always served that role for the lost. (still true to this very day) And of course the ceremonial law - of shadows and sacrifices pointed in all cases to the sacrifice of Christ.

br
Thats what I already stated ! It was given for the sake of the Election of Grace in national israel to lead them to Faith in Christ which it was successful in doing !

The moral law in general was to work that same purpose to the Gentile Elect outside of the boundries of israel nationally, for they had the moral law wriiten in their consciences Rom 2:14-15

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law[of moses], do by nature the things contained in the law[moral law], these, having not the law[of moses], are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)

Certainly a lost gentile with no access to the bible would be using that system.

But as we see in Isaiah 56 and Acts 13, and Acts 17 and Acts 18 there were always cases were saved gentiles worshiped the one true God in the synagogues - but were not Jews.

They would have access to the actual 10 Commandments - with an even better understanding of the Law of God spoken at Sinai as the moral law of God "written on the heart"

But the law of sacrifices did not "shut up everyone under sin" only the moral law can do that.

But for the saved the Law of God serves the role in Heb 8 and Jer 31:31-33 written on the heart - both in the case of the Jew and the gentile who believe.

Although I am a Sabbath keeping Seventh-day Adventist - the point I am making here is one that is held in common by the vast majority of scholarship on both sides of that question. All of the groups below accept this statement about the TEN Commandments as the Law of God binding upon all mankind from Eden to this very day.


"Baptist Confession of Faith"
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
C.H. Spurgeon
Andy Stanley
Matthew Henry
[FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown[/FONT]
R.C Sproul
"D.L. Moody"
"Dies Domini"

 

[BobRyan]

as Paul points out in Romans 3 and Gal 3 --all mankind "not just Jews" are sinners according to the still-valid Law of God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.


as Paul points out in Gal 3 "Every mouth closed" not "just every Jewish mouth closed". Notice that Paul says the LAW is "SCRIPTURE" --- "Scripture has shut up everyone under sin" -- those who are ready to "do without Scripture" once they come to faith - need to think this through a bit more. Paul does not say "scripture has shut up every Jew under sin" nor "every saved Jew under sin" nor "just the remnant under sin'.

Gal 3

21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The Church in the OT and the Church, the Body of Christ in the NT are the same People, the Church the Body of Christ, but under different dispensations.

Agreed. But it is "one" Gospel in both ages as Paul insists in Gal 1:6-9

Several scriptures bare this out, such as when Paul writing to the Church @ Corinth, that portion of the Body of Christ, he writes this 1 Cor 10:1-11



Now notice Vs 4, that Rock was Christ, the Head of His Body the Church, 1 Cor 11:3;12:12

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

And Christ is the same in all three texts here quoted, the Head of the Church. He is the same as stated here Heb 13:8

Jesus Christ[The Head of His Body] the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Also true and in 1Cor 10:4 "they all drank from the same spiritual Rock and that Rock (petra) was Christ)

And Paul relates the experiences of the OT Church and Body of Christ See Acts 7:38 Cp 1 Cor 10:4

he relates the OT Church as examples for the NT Church to learn from 1 Cor 10:6

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we [The Church]should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.546

good point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

Agreed. But it is "one" Gospel in both ages as Paul insists in Gal 1:6-9




Also true and in 1Cor 10:4 "they all drank from the same spiritual Rock and that Rock (petra) was Christ)



good point.

in Christ,

Bob

there were Old and New covenants though, correct?

And while the law was ephasised in the Old, Grace was now under the new One!

 

[savedbymercy]

The Same People under different testaments !2

Another NT scripture that sets forth the unity and connection of the OT Church/Body of Christ with the NT Church/Body of Christ is Romans 15:3-4

3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

hence the scriptures written in OT Times served for the same purpose of Spiritual Comfort and Hope as they did for the OT Believers and Now the NT Believers, For David wrote Ps 119:49,50,52,76,81,114,116

49 Remember the word unto thy servant, upon which thou hast caused me to hope.

50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

52 I remembered thy judgments of old, O Lord; and have comforted myself.

76 Let, I pray thee, thy merciful kindness be for my comfort, according to thy word unto thy servant.

81 My soul fainteth for thy salvation: but I hope in thy word.

114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.

116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

CP this last verse Ps 119:116 with Rom 5:3-5

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Understand, the OT Believers in Christ went through similar afflictions and sufferings for Christ's sake, hence Paul quotes David in writing to the Church at Rome Rom 8:36

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

CP Ps 44:22

22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Moses suffered affliction in OT times for the sake of Christ and the Church Heb 11:25-26

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

The same reproach for Christ as the NT Saints 1 Pet 4:14

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.547

 

[BobRyan]

there were Old and New covenants though, correct?

And while the law was ephasised in the Old, Grace was now under the new One!

There is "one Gospel" as Paul reminds us in Gal 1:6-9

Those who preach salvation by law are preaching "another gospel"

those who preach against the New Covenant and the Law of the New Covenant - preach "another Gospel".

Paul says in Gal 3:7 "THE Gospel was preached to Abraham".

In Heb 4:1 "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"

In Jer 31 it is "THE LAW of God that is written on the heart and mind"

In Heb 8 it is "The LAW of God that is written on the heart and mind"

In Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void THE LAW of God by our faith? God forb id - in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31

This Bible detail is soo incredibly obvious that it has a surprising result.


Here is an example of claims made by the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

There is "one Gospel" as Paul reminds us in Gal 1:6-9

Those who preach salvation by law are preaching "another gospel"

those who preach against the New Covenant and the Law of the New Covenant - preach "another Gospel".

Paul says in Gal 3:7 "THE Gospel was preached to Abraham".

In Heb 4:1 "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"

In Jer 31 it is "THE LAW of God that is written on the heart and mind"

In Heb 8 it is "The LAW of God that is written on the heart and mind"

In Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void THE LAW of God by our faith? God forb id - in fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31

This Bible detail is soo incredibly obvious that it has a surprising result.


Here is an example of claims made by the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================
Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

in Christ,

Bob

Again, while Christians are to live morally before the Lord who has saved them, we have NOT been commanded to obey and keep all 10 as the merit way to either get or keep salvation, as your prophetess as taught that if one keeps not the sat sabbath, the mark of the beast will be upon them, and forfeit salvation!