There is spiritual israel, which are the saved Jews, and the lost ones, national israel?
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Israel as a Nation and God's Plan
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Both verses spoken exclusively to Jews. It's pretty simple to see by the context.
This has nothing to do with gentiles whatsoever, and he's certainly not saying that gentiles ever become "spiritual Jews".
He's talking specifically to Jews in the congregation at Rome and saying they were created for something greater than perfection in the flesh. To be true to the calling God gave specifically to them, which according to the very next verse, is a great advantage in every way. (Romans 3:1)
An overview of the book of Romans shows that there were some serious divisions in the Body of Messiah between Jews and Gentiles already. Rav Shaul (Rabbi Paul) spends the first 4 chapters addressing the arrogant attitude of Jews towards the Gentiles, and then later in chapters 9 - 12 he addresses the arrogance of Gentiles towards the Jews.
That is why Romans is such a great source of Christian theology because it explains how faith is our only justification, whether Jew or Greek.
It's pretty clear by the context that there is only ONE Israel. As long as there has been a nation called "Israel" there were the faithful and the unfaithful, not much different than Americans.
God created Israel specifically to be a light to the nations. The faithful Jew is being true to the calling of Israel, those who are not being faithful are not "true" Israel. This does not negate those who are, for the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable.
We, the faithful remnant of the Nations, are wild olive branches grafted into the olive tree where they are called "natural branches". One can not be grafted into themselves. We are only "Israel" by adoption into the family that started with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Not all of the jews will be counted as faithful, of course, but the Kingdom is promised to Israel and those Goyim (Nations) who are joined to them.
I don't recognize any division of theology between them. They are one book. God is not divided and neither is the truth.
And you haven't proven your superior brilliance enough to judge my intellect yet. So I guess we'll let time and the saints decide who knows what they're talking about, ok?
Nice to meet you, btw.
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What about the prophecies which have nothing to do with Jesus? At least half of prophetic writings were dealing with a different subject/issue.
Well, you are implying that my debate is that God shows favor based on DNA and that is nowhere near accurate. However, the One who created the Universe did so in multiple sequences. Are plants better than animals because they were created first? Do they not both serve His purposes and yet have distinct purpose themselves?
Why are you so bothered that God chose Jacob to be a light to the nations? You are chosen also but only because you are grafted into that promise. There is no good reason to envy the calling God gave the Jews since being "chosen" by God is not necessarily a "happy" thing, nor is it about being superior. It just means chosen for a purpose as defined by Him.
Right. Not relevant to the topic, but factually correct.
By the way....where did you hear that?
Jesus said (and I quote):
John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
If not for the Jews you would still be lost in your sins, so it always puzzles me why a Christian would have such contempt for our Lord and His blood relatives?
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The epistle is written to the saints at Rome. For sure the Jews in the congregation were getting told, 'There's NOTHING special about you'. Gentiles who have not the law, or have not heard the law, but do the law because the law has been written in their hearts, are justified. Those Jews were being told their circumcision in the flesh amounted to diddly squat. It was the circumcision not made with hands that determined who the true Jews were. The first two chapters of Romans builds to the question of 3:1
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision? Ro 3
And I'll give you a hint, a special, particular DNA was NOT their advantage.
Wrong. Two Israels. One after the flesh and the other of promise.
LoL...only *One* true Israel, but two Israels. Got it
Thanks for agreeing with me that Paul was talking to Jews and NOT Gentiles. No such thing as gentiles becoming "spiritual" Jews. Only Jews who are spiritual can be spiritual Jews
Then, yes of course, the next sentence says
I'll see your hint and raise you the Word of God. What is the next sentence (conveniently left off) to the question of "what advantage then hath the Jew or what is the profit of circumcision????
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
LoL...only *One* true Israel, but two Israels. Got it
Yea. Repeat it over and over till you 'get it':
For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel
For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel
For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel
25 Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4
Two Jerusalems, two Israels.
2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12
If they're no longer Gentiles they are....... the Israel of God!
15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hos 1
Not sure what you're imagining to be included with "much every way".
Care to tell?
Don't be bashful, tell us how special you people are.
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Scripture uses the term "the circumcision" to refer to Jews in general, but includes believing Gentiles.
This is a search for "the circumcision."
Put simply, unbelieving Jews & Gentiles are lost sinners who need to repent;
believing Jews & Gentiles inherit ALL the old covenant promises as one redeemed people of God.
The prophetic future for unbelieving Jews is judgment.
Phil. 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. 3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
This is a search for "the circumcision."
Put simply, unbelieving Jews & Gentiles are lost sinners who need to repent;
believing Jews & Gentiles inherit ALL the old covenant promises as one redeemed people of God.
The prophetic future for unbelieving Jews is judgment.
Paul's opinion of the Judaisers:
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision: Phil 3
I am delighted to hear it and hope it continues. I don't see what it has to do with the building of a third temple. If anything, I would have thought mass conversions to Christianity would make that less likely. If God is bringing all the Jews back to Israel, it will happen and there's nothing I can do about it even if I wanted to, which I don't. However, I'm told that there are more Jews in New York than in the whole of Israel. so there's a bit of a way to go yet.
More Moslems are being saved today than ever before in history. Is that a mere coincidence, and does it have any connection to Jews becoming Christians?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
1, Do you believe that God is currently regathering the nation of Israel from the various other nations of the world?
No.
2, Will Jesus Christ return to the current geographical location that is modern day Jerusalem?
At least that, but I suspect that it will be something much more.
3, Do you believe that events that happen in Modern Day Israel are evidence of the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy?
No. Not more than any other nation.
4, Does the Temple have to be rebuilt before the return of Jesus Christ can take place?
No. The Temple because irrelevant to God's redeeming work at the death of Jesus. It did serve as a place of identity and worship after that, but it was not necessary to God's purposes. For that matter, the Tabernacle and Temple were NEVER required except as to serve as living image of God's redemptive work. The people of God did just fine before the Tabernacle was constructed, while in exile, and since the Second Temple was destroyed.
5, Will the current nation of Israel ever be expanded to its historical borders, encompassing Lebanon, Jordan and other areas?
Maybe, maybe not. It is irrelevant. The New Jerusalem is coming from the heavens, not from a human political entity.
6, If you traveled to Jerusalem as a tourist, would you place a prayer on paper into the wailing wall?
No, Jesus replaced the Temple. Moreover, the wailing wall is not a wall of the Temple, but a remnant of later construction and expansion of the Temple mount. A prayer on paper there is considered by God to be no more important than a written prayer in a spiral notebook in Las Vegas, Nevada. Both are known and heard.
7, Would traveling to Israel on vacation be something that you would consider to be a spiritual experience?
No.
8, Are Palestinian Christians being treated fairly or unfairly in the occupied territories by the Israeli authorities?
Yes
No.
2, Will Jesus Christ return to the current geographical location that is modern day Jerusalem?
At least that, but I suspect that it will be something much more.
3, Do you believe that events that happen in Modern Day Israel are evidence of the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy?
No. Not more than any other nation.
4, Does the Temple have to be rebuilt before the return of Jesus Christ can take place?
No. The Temple because irrelevant to God's redeeming work at the death of Jesus. It did serve as a place of identity and worship after that, but it was not necessary to God's purposes. For that matter, the Tabernacle and Temple were NEVER required except as to serve as living image of God's redemptive work. The people of God did just fine before the Tabernacle was constructed, while in exile, and since the Second Temple was destroyed.
5, Will the current nation of Israel ever be expanded to its historical borders, encompassing Lebanon, Jordan and other areas?
Maybe, maybe not. It is irrelevant. The New Jerusalem is coming from the heavens, not from a human political entity.
6, If you traveled to Jerusalem as a tourist, would you place a prayer on paper into the wailing wall?
No, Jesus replaced the Temple. Moreover, the wailing wall is not a wall of the Temple, but a remnant of later construction and expansion of the Temple mount. A prayer on paper there is considered by God to be no more important than a written prayer in a spiral notebook in Las Vegas, Nevada. Both are known and heard.
7, Would traveling to Israel on vacation be something that you would consider to be a spiritual experience?
No.
8, Are Palestinian Christians being treated fairly or unfairly in the occupied territories by the Israeli authorities?
Yes
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Sorry for the small print technology and me don't get along to well... Now if I had my 10 year old grandson here I could write it and he could post it for me... Is there a class on here or can someone start one Posting 101?... Since I returned I'm all thumbs... "HELP!"... Brother Glen
Hey I just discovered something... If you hit control and that plus key on your computer the words get bigger... WOW!... Imagine that!... Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong generation?... Brother Glen
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