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Israel at war

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Oct 8, 2023.

  1. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Without French aid, including our warships, the War of Independence would likely have been a footnote in the history of the British Empire … alongside the Jacobite rebellions of the era.
     
  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I am of the impression that Israel can take care of itself. What it needs is to be allowed to take care of itself without being “arm twisted” into restraint or concessions that are contrary to its survival as a nation.

    If attacked, let them defend themselves.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Regardless, I agree with John Quincy Adams. If anything, your statement would mean that the U.S. could come to the aid of France if they were attacked, which obligation the United States already fulfilled in World War I.. That has nothing to with the United States, with a rapidly expanding national debt of over $33 trillion, going further into debt to see aid to any other country.
     
  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Look closer at where the money is going.

    I agree that we waste far too much money on Subsidies (corporate welfare) and WAR, but even of we zero-out all discretionary spending (nothing for subsidies, military, foreign aid, etc) it would still not balance the budget.

    Social Security, Welfare and Health are the lion’s share of the budget and combined they are growing faster than revenue. They require an act of Congress (laws) to change that spending, and they create a deficit all by themselves most years.

    We need to significantly grow the economy or have a hard conversation about entitlements. Until then, arguing about millions in foreign aid or billions in defense spending against a back drop of trillions (thousands of billions) in entitlements is just “straining gnats”.
     
  5. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    We spend trillions on offense, not defense. With a portion of our military budget we could wipe out world hunger. Only a tiny drop and we could end homelessness in the United States. We outspend China Russia and everyone on this planet. We have over 800 bases around the world to control other nations. We are warmongers, and are responsible for all wars on this planet. The cio spends hundreds of billions alone on misinformation, including on us. Look at election interference by the fvi alone. Of course the ci0 and pentagon were in on it as well. We miss trillions of dollars whenever there is a audit of the pentagon. Where does that dishonesty come from?
     
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  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Semper Fi
     
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  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    FYI:
    Statement by Secretary of Defense on the President’s
    Fiscal Year 2023 Budget

    “I am proud to join President Biden in submitting the fiscal year 2023 Budget. Our
    department’s budget will help us continue to defend the nation, take care of our people
    and succeed through teamwork with our allies and partners.

    This $773 billion budget request reinforces our commitment to the concept of integrated
    deterrence, allows us to better sequence and conduct operations around the globe that
    are aligned to our priorities, modernizes the Joint Force, and delivers meaningful
    support for our dedicated workforce and their families.

    As I have said many times, we need resources matched to strategy, strategy matched
    to policy and policy matched to the will of the American people.

    This budget gives us the resources we need to deliver on that promise. Our budget
    reflects our National Defense Strategy and the focus of that strategy on the pacing
    challenge of China. It will help us prepare for other future challenges, as well, including
    those posed by climate change. It preserves our readiness and deterrent posture
    against the threats we face today: the acute threat of an aggressive Russia and the
    constantly emerging threats posed by North Korea, Iran, and violent extremist
    organizations. And it absolutely supports our policy of U.S. global leadership of — and
    responsibility for — our vast network of alliances and partnerships.

    I am proud of the work that has gone into this budget request, and I look forward to
    discussing it with members of Congress in the days and weeks ahead.”

    – Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III
    From CBO (2023 Budget):
    Total Outlays = $6,221 billion
    Mandatory (by law, like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid) = $3,840 billion
    Discretionary (including Defense Budget) = $1,741 billion
    Interest = $640 billion​

    So we spend almost as much on interest as we do on Defense and even eliminating the ENTIRE defense budget will not eliminate the $1,410 billion budget deficit. (We need to know the real numbers if we are going to solve the real problems.)

     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    More like in the vicinity of $1 trillion all put together - the military, the CIA, foreign aid.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    With the federal government running $2 trillion budget deficits year after year after year, if the Democrats and Republicans keep kicking the can down the road, there will eventually be no can left to kick.

    A country that is financially in dire straits cannot fund a military the size that the United States is used to. At some point, running yearly $2 trillion deficits, the U.S. will be in quite dire straits financially. At what national debt amount does that happen? $40 trillion(the U.S. will probably reach that in 2026)? $45 trillion? $50 trillion?

    In order to balance the federal budget before the United States falls into financial ruin will require EVERYTHING to be on the table - taxes, the military, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, transportation, education, etc. - ALL spending and ALL sources of revenue.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="Conan, post: 2865013, member: 15211]"We are warmongers, and are responsible for all wars on this planet. [/QUOTE]


    Prove it.
     
    #30 Revmitchell, Oct 10, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2023
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  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Since Iran is funding this along with Syria and Lebanon they need our assistance.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Are you willing to have your taxes raised to pay for this assistance or just add it to the rapidly expanding national debt, thus hastening the day when the United States would face financial ruin?
     
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  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Some questions:

    1) Why was a Trance Music Festival being held 3 miles or so from the Gaza border? It would be like Ukrainians holding a music festival in eastern Ukraine 3 miles from the Russian border.

    I had not heard of trance music before. It is some weird stuff: "A trance is a state of hypnotism and heightened consciousness. This is portrayed in trance music by the mixing of layers with distinctly foreshadowed build-up and release. A common characteristic of modern trance music is a mid-song climax followed by a soft breakdown disposing of beats and percussion entirely, leaving the melody or atmospherics to stand alone for an extended period before gradually building up again. Trance tracks are often lengthy to allow for such progression and commonly have sufficiently sparse opening and closing sections to facilitate mixing by DJs. (Trance music - Wikipedia)

    2) Israeli intelligence is regarded as among the best in the world. How did they miss months of planning and training that went on prior to the attack?

    3) Netanyahu has been under pressure for a while over his judicial reform efforts. With this attack, as all countries seem to do(think 9/11/2001 in the U.S.), people rally around the leader of the country.

    I'm not saying that anything untoward was going on, but there do seem to have been some rather odd things going on. Maybe it was just the general lack of judgment that human beings are so often afflicted with.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The event and those activities have nothing to do with the attack by the Terrorists. One has nothing to do with the other.

    This is a question everyone is asking. It appears from Hamas' own claims they kept this among a very select few.

    Again one thing has nothing to do with the other.

    Trying to read too much into a situation that we have an inclination to want to criticize is not uncommon either.
     
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If the festival was not 3 miles from the Gaza border, but, say, it had been outside Tel Aviv, would it have been so stridently attacked?

    If you were living in Ukraine, would you attend a festival 3 miles from the border of Russia?
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Apples and oranges
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    We disagree. It was foolish to hold a festival 3 miles from the the border of enemy territory.

    Also, I am opposed to the neoconservative/neoliberal foreign adventurism agenda. I urge all citizens of the United States to oppose their agenda, as well.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well I am not a neoconservative but Iran is crying out death to America. Palestinians (a misnomer) are crying out Islam will be in every household. And those are just the protests right now in America. Further, they took Americans hostage and killed some. This requires a response and total defeat.

    The Israel lives with Palestinians coming and going throughout Israel every day. You know nothing of the region nor the relationship with each other. You are talking about things you know not of.
     
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  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    They've been doing that since 1979.

    1) Were they U.S. citizens visiting Israel, or some of the many with dual Israeli-U.S. citizenship.

    2) If you want the U.S. to respond with total defeat to every country or group that mistreats Americans abroad, then you are basically advocating for a Word War II-level response.

    Maybe not, but you certainly sound like a fellow traveler with them.

    You have lived in that area near the Gaza border?
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Lived no but I have been there, in that area. I have talked with them been to their homes. It is not the general population of the GAZA strip that is the issue. It is Hamas that bullies those people and then hides their terrorist buddies and all their military equipment in the general population. And I have driven through Gaza.
     
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