Israel Says "No More"

Terrorist is not just a label. these terrorists have declared their intent to run Iarael into the sea. If they ever had their way they would destroy Israel, wipe them out, commit genocide.

Sympathizing with terrorists gives them support. Good luck with that!

 

It is not surprising to see you quote Pat Buchanan. He never met a Jew he liked and never met a terrorist he wasn't willing to defend.

Joseph Botwinick

 

not just a label? as has been seen earlier on this thread, genocidal tendencies appear on both sides, regardless of label.

does sympathising w either side give it support?

o really? this is the 1st time i've noticed, to my surprise too, a conservative (n a Charismatic at that!) deviate fr ur groupthink; that's the reason Pat Buchanan was quoted.

is this why he qualifies for ad hominem?

have u ever met a Palestinian or Lebanese Christian OTOH?

what does it take to help someone see the other side?

 

I have. None of them were members of Hamas or Hezbollah. Are you?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Important thing to remember:

1)How many Israeli organzations/governments call for the destruction of all Arabs?

2) How many Arab organizations/governments call for the destruction of all Israelis?

 

1. The only group I know of is the Kahanist movement, which is even condemned by the Israeli Government as a terrorist organization.

2. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Hezbollah, Hezbollah of Iran.

Joseph Botwinick

 

one seems more sophisticated in its propaganda than the other, n better armed for sure. suicide bombers n ketushyas r more clumsy, direct ways of expressing one's hatred. but what abt 50 yrs of fencing in n humiliating an entire population, not to mention the occasional sabras n shatillas?

aren't there indiscriminate killings on both sides?

but back to my point, why do i sense "they're the baddies" bloodlust rather than a commitment to calm both sides down n work for a more lasting peace?

 

Hamas and Hezbollah both had a chance to sit down with the Israelis and work for a lasting peace. They both rejected the chance.

How many more chances do you want to give them to kill and maim Israeli civilians?

 

No true peace can come whenever the organizations do not truly disavow the desire to destroy Israel.

 

to the shame of Cofee Anan and the Arab controlled UN.

 

Here's the other side regarding Palestinian and Lebanese Christians:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_current_christians.php

 

Thx! this reminds me of what i heard sometime ago fr the Arab pastors who issued Jerry Falwell this letter:

http://www.saltfilms.net/issues/openletter.html

it's sad when religion--esp a false eschatology--gets mixed in w politics n other interests, n it's particularly poignant to see our brethren suffer when collective punishment happens, the water gets turned off, the checkpoints, etc. they tell me that that's bad, but it's even more painful when professing Christians, their Baptist n evanglical brethren in the West, turn a blind eye or even support those who make their lives more difficult.

may their witness continue n their courage endure to the v end!

hmm, being a Hezbollahnik or a Hamasnik n not knowing it. that's a thot!

 

I agree with some of what these pastors say, and disagree with some of it. Where do I agree?

• I agree that it is right to condemn acts of terrorism on both sides-Palestinian (the suicide bombers) and Israelis (those in the Kahanist terrorist group who stoned Palestinian teens and IDF soldier last year during the Gaza Pullout).
• I agree that there should be a two state solution and that both sides should be able to live in peace.
• I agree that Falwell's, as well as many others eschatological views have been an unecessary stumbling block to peace in the Middle East.

Where do I disagree?

• I disagree that it is the lack of land and a state for the Palestinian people that has been the cause of so much bloodshed through the years. The reason there is so much bloodshed is because there has been militant Muslims who teach their children to hate Jews as part of their religion through the years and there has been too many Israeli leaders who are naive enough to believe that they can simply achieve peace through prisoner exchanges and by giving them land. There will never be any hope for peace in Israel until Israel demands reciprocity and real and tangible changes in the Palestinian culture before they give them anything and until the Palestinian people disarm the terrorist groups and don't elect them as their leaders. There can be no peace with Hamas in charge of your country. It will not work.
• I also disagree that while, yes, Israel does have its own extremists, no they are not as common as they are amongst Palestinians and they are not celebrated as heroes and freedom fighters by their government. They are rightly condemned as terrorist hate groups.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I was just wondering because you seem intent on defending the terrorist organizations. Perhaps you are a part of them. Can I assume from your response that you are not, and instead, you are just really ignorant about how bad they really are?

Joseph Botwinick

 

i'd say i havta agree, too. those pastors live there n shd know, shdn't they?

n then u seem to understand the situation a lot better than them! perhaps they r simply "intent on defending the terrorist organizations." who knows, but for disagreeing w ur POV, they "are a part of them."

or perhaps u can conclude fr their response that they're "just really ignorant about how bad [the terrorists] really are?"

i wld suggest there won't be hope for peace unless both sides have a robust will to desist fr oppression and violence. there's been a fragile peace during the some of the past Israeli administrations that we seem to have forgotten, when both sides refrained fr provoking one another, either thru official or unofficial channels (govt policies, suicide bombers, etc.--u seem to know the news, so i won't need to recount).

as for terrorists on either side, u're quite right that they exist, n some are condemned or assassinated by remote control. yet others seem to rise to the highest offices n then, in some cases, turn around to condemn terror. not that i can figure this all out, but it so happens!