Israel will fall

[tinytim]

OK, so this is the guy Obama wants to negotiate with....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361705,00.html
"Today, the time for the fall of the satanic power of the United States has come and the countdown to the annihilation of the emperor of power and wealth has started," the hard-line president said.




OK... I guess lil messiah can win him over... and talk some sense into him...

Iran is threatening the US... should we take it? or ignore it?

Can someone say 9/11.

Why are the liberals so blind? This guy needs removed from the face of they Earth NOW... not talked too.. not ignored, but removed!

If another 9/11 happens, then what?

And do you really think Obama will attack Iran if need be?
Will Obama defend Israel?

As an American, I am very scared of the results of this election...

Why? Because, I don't think McCain will be tough enough either...
He will want to compromise with President "Ima-dingdang-nut-job"

Islamist extremists don't want to talk, they want to KILL US.

WAKE UP AMERICA.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I am for opening up trade with the Iranian people.

That being said, everyone here knows I am no Obama fan, and here is the junior senator calling Israel an "open sore" that affects all of our foreign policy.

http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/obama_on_zionism_and_hamas.php

 

[Revmitchell]

Islamist extremists don't want to talk, they want to KILL US.

WAKE UP AMERICA.

That's right:thumbs:

 

[Andre]

That's right:thumbs:

Fair enough. Now what is a Scriptural response to those who want to kill Americans? This is a tough question. But I think we can be fairly certain that the answer is not to "remove them from the face of the Earth".

 

[donnA]

I don't know, what does the bible say about a nation, not individuals, but the whole nation's response.
God had Israel completly wipe out several peoples.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What were some of the prayers King David uttered, concerning war, and his enemies ?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Fair enough. Now what is a Scriptural response to those who want to kill Americans? This is a tough question. But I think we can be fairly certain that the answer is not to "remove them from the face of the Earth".

Is the correct answer:

Lay your head on the chopping block with a smile.

 

[Revmitchell]

Is the correct answer:

Lay your head on the chopping block with a smile.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Palatka51]

In the law of Moses, the man in the watchtower that has fallen asleep is to be stoned. Just as Tim's wise counsel said;

Islamist extremists don't want to talk, they want to KILL US.

WAKE UP AMERICA.

:thumbs:

 

[Andre]

Is the correct answer:

Lay your head on the chopping block with a smile.

I never suggested that, as you well know.

Jesus instructed us to love our enemies. It seems very hard to see how pre-emptory annihilation of one's enemies is an expression of love.

There are interesting contradictions in American evangelicalism (and I will include Canadians here too). You affirm the lordship of Jesus and presumably therefore ascribe to his Kingdom values.

But when it comes to matters of materialism, or environmental responsibility, or militarism, or guns, many of you choose a path that is clearly and demonstrably not the Kingdom way.

 

[KenH]

Iran is threatening the US

Ahmadinejad is making threats. Ahmadinejad has no power in the Iranian governmental system to make good on his threats. Ahmadinejad may very well lose in the next Iranian presidential election, in 2009 if I recall correctly.

Frankly, Ahmadinejad should be ignored.

This is getting to be so predictable and repetitive. Ahmadinejad makes an outrageous statement and the radial right-wing in this country reacts with its own threats, Ahmadinejad makes an outrageous statement and the radial right-wing in this country reacts with its own threats, etc., etc., etc.

Ahmadinejad and the radical right-wing in this country were made for each other.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I never suggested that, as you well know.

Jesus instructed us to love our enemies. It seems very hard to see how pre-emptory annihilation of one's enemies is an expression of love.

There are interesting contradictions in American evangelicalism (and I will include Canadians here too). You affirm the lordship of Jesus and presumably therefore ascribe to his Kingdom values.

But when it comes to matters of materialism, or environmental responsibility, or militarism, or guns, many of you choose a path that is clearly and demonstrably not the Kingdom way.

Any reason you won't answer my challenge, concerning the Psalms ?

 

[ajg1959]

I never suggested that, as you well know.

Jesus instructed us to love our enemies. It seems very hard to see how pre-emptory annihilation of one's enemies is an expression of love.

There are interesting contradictions in American evangelicalism (and I will include Canadians here too). You affirm the lordship of Jesus and presumably therefore ascribe to his Kingdom values.

But when it comes to matters of materialism, or environmental responsibility, or militarism, or guns, many of you choose a path that is clearly and demonstrably not the Kingdom way.

I see no differnece between what the attackers did to our country on 9/11 and a intruder that breaks into your home at 3 am to cause harm to your family. Do you stop him with "love"? Or do you put him down as quickly as you can before he does harm to your loved ones?

Yes, Jesus taught us to love our enemies, but He never said for us to not defend ourselves from them.

And Tim is right, if we ignore Iran's threats against us we may very well be attacked again. And Donna is right, God had Isreal completely wipe out whole nations that were a threat to them. I believe we have a biblical obligation to defend Isreal, and we will be sorely judged as a nation if we fail to and Isreal falls prey to the Arab nations that want to destroy it.

How much love do you think Jesus was feeling when He beat the moneychangers in the temple?

I am not promoting hate, I am simply saying that God never expects us to be wimps and not protect our loved ones. Unfortunately, on the international front, violence and war are lots of times the only way to protect ourselves.

Those of you who believe that all war is evil and that people that fight or send people to fight are ungodly need to remember one thing.......

If it werent for the folks with enough backbone to fight for your safety and your freedom, then you would not have the freedom to believe what you do. You can believe anything you want to about love and war, and what Jesus taught, but it boils down to the fact that you only have that freedom today because many people that you would call war-mongers gave their lives so that you could enjoy the freedom to disrespect them.

AJ

 

[ajg1959]

And one more thing...

How is it that the very same folks who say that religion has nothing to do with their choice of a president, are the first ones to ask what a biblical response to threats on our country should be?

Listen folks......with Obama we NEVER see him even seek an answer from God before he makes a decision. I am not too sure about McCain either, but at least he has enough worldly experience than to ignore threats.

How can an evil man that promotes abortion and gay marriage know what a biblical response is?

AJ

 

[Andre]

Any reason you won't answer my challenge, concerning the Psalms ?

Sure I will answer it. I am not aware of the specific Psalms you are referring to. But I will assume that they are prayers from David to God that God will destroy David's enemies.

1. Not everything David says or does reflects the will of God. It is a far stretch from acknowledging that David prayed for the destruction of his enemies to the conclusion that God wants David to act on that wish and eliminate them.

2. Jesus, on the other hand, can be taken as authoritative when he instructs us to love our enemies. This does not mean that we never engage in warfare. But it certainly does mean that we do not use violence when it is not clearly needed. I would have thought that the debacle in Iraq would have convinced you of the folly of attacking when there is no real need.

One really does read some startling things in these threads. Things like using Jesus' statement about "the poor always being with us" as a justification for not supporting the concept of taxing the rich to support the poor. Or the implication that since the world is going to be "scorched" at the end of time, we can go ahead and pump it full of CO2 to hasten the process along. Or the notion that since God instituted governments and their use of the "sword" as per Romans 13, this justifies the invasion of a sovereign state (Iraq) without need.

It's almost as if one can get enough people to "pretend" that the scriptures say X when they clearly say Y, we can claim to be followers of the gospel way and yet be indistinguishable from the world.

David may have prayed for the violent destruction of his enemies. Well, God may indeed answer that prayer. But woe betide us if we choose to be the instruments of needless bloodshed, in light of Jesus' clear teaching to love our enemies.

God will deal with the Iranian leader. We do not know how or what He will do. But we do know our role. In the midst of a world that ignores Jesus' kingdom values (including many who will claim the title "Christian"), we are to seek the path of loving our enemies.

I can just hear all the "yes, but...." responses". I have the instinct to ask those questions too. But I know there is a stake in the ground that Jesus has set for us - love your enemies.

And whatever else a pre-emptive "taking out" of one's enemies entails, it certainly cannot be mangled into an expression of love.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So were the prayers to have his enemies destroyed sin ? Try and just answer that one question, eh ?

 

[Andre]

If it werent for the folks with enough backbone to fight for your safety and your freedom, then you would not have the freedom to believe what you do. You can believe anything you want to about love and war, and what Jesus taught, but it boils down to the fact that you only have that freedom today because many people that you would call war-mongers gave their lives so that you could enjoy the freedom to disrespect them.

Things are not as simple as this and when you start to make suggestions about "lack of backbone", you beg the question: "Which takes more backbone - to adopt the pacifist route - the Jesus route - and the risk that entails, or to drop some more smart-bombs?"

Things are not as simple as your statement above implies. I have never denied the need for war in some circumstances. So I hope you are not attributing that position to me.

But I hope that. likewise, you are not going to argue that the adventure in Iraq has made the world a safer place. It was bred an entire generation of young people, committed to the destruction of the west.

Is that how war guarantees my freedom?

 

[Andre]

So were the prayers to have his enemies destroyed sin ? Try and just answer that one question, eh ?

Yes, such prayers were sin.

 

[Andre]

And one more thing...

How is it that the very same folks who say that religion has nothing to do with their choice of a president, are the first ones to ask what a biblical response to threats on our country should be?.

Who are you directing this to? It certainly could not be moi, since I have asserted numerous times in numerous threads that we should indeed seek for a government based on Christian principles. So who is it that you are talking to here?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Yes, such prayers were sin.

And with that, I bid you fare well. Your views are too unscriptual to argue.