Proof positive that you don't understand salvation. Carry on. You're free to proceed in your error.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
It accomplished that all shall Live !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Proof positive that you don't understand salvation. Carry on. You're free to proceed in your error.
savedbymercy
New Member
Question here :
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
Question here :
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
Go study the scriptures, friend.
Lay down your inquisitions and your attempts to paint people into a corner. No more answers for you until you answer the question I've asked you at least a half dozen times
Are you perfect? Did Jesus accomplish that for you? A simple yes or no will suffice.
savedbymercy
New Member
Go study the scriptures, friend.
Lay down your inquisitions and your attempts to paint people into a corner. No more answers for you until you answer the question I've asked you at least a half dozen times
Are you perfect? Did Jesus accomplish that for you? A simple yes or no will suffice.
I see you scared to answer that question, it will reveal your true belief on what the death of Christ accomplished and effected, so i understand your evasion of it, as well as the others evasion of it ! As far as your question about me , I am not here to discuss me personally, or to bring any attention to myself, but what Christ did in General and what He accomplished for any and all for whom He died !
savedbymercy
New Member
Question here :
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
Why are so many evading this question ? I know many have seen it ! Dont be scared to answer it !
Question here :
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
"Is it possible"?
Is it possible for God to make a rock so heavy, even He can't lift it?
Your question is worded in such a way that you expect only a single answer. When it's pointed out that the question itself is erroneous, you fall to "why is everyone scared to answer?"
It's not that anyone's scared; it's that your question requires only the answer you want to hear.
So here's my answer, to your question as it's worded: No.
savedbymercy
New Member
To say that those Christ died for are not forgiven of their sins completely before they believe and while they are enemies is to flat out deny the accomplishment of the Death and Blood of Christ !
All for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, ,unbelievers, they have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:
I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.to receive one into favour
Hence those Christ died for are received into the Favor of God, not based upon anything they did or did not do, but simply by the Death of Christ. Now man cannot be reconciled to God and in favor with Him if his sins have not been forgiven !
All for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, ,unbelievers, they have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:
I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.to receive one into favour
Hence those Christ died for are received into the Favor of God, not based upon anything they did or did not do, but simply by the Death of Christ. Now man cannot be reconciled to God and in favor with Him if his sins have not been forgiven !
Before they believe -- do they follow after the flesh or after the spirit? (Romans 8:1)
Are we saved by hope? (Roman 8:24)
Who is Christ the end of the law for? (Romans 10:4)
With the heart, man does what? (Romans 10:10)
Which people are identified in Romans 10:13 that, if they call upon the name of the Lord, they'll be saved?
Where does faith come from? (Romans 10:17)
Will you honestly answer someone else's questions?
Are we saved by hope? (Roman 8:24)
Who is Christ the end of the law for? (Romans 10:4)
With the heart, man does what? (Romans 10:10)
Which people are identified in Romans 10:13 that, if they call upon the name of the Lord, they'll be saved?
Where does faith come from? (Romans 10:17)
Will you honestly answer someone else's questions?
Will you honestly answer someone else's questions?
With the style he employs, I would have only one more question for him:
Are you trying to convince me, or yourself?
His style supports the latter. He doesn't seem to care who, if any, he convinces. I think he doubts his eternal security, but really wants to be certain. He's probably not convinced by Hyper-Calvinism, but thinks it is a better alternative to the Arminianism he believes in his heart.
Tough spot to be in, I've been there too.
Yep, demands an answer from others. Gets one. Doesn't respond to questions from others.
What? Is your viewpoint that fragile that you refuse any challenges because you're afraid you might change your mind? Or worse: see a scriptural truth that causes you to change?
What? Is your viewpoint that fragile that you refuse any challenges because you're afraid you might change your mind? Or worse: see a scriptural truth that causes you to change?
savedbymercy
New Member
Does anyone understand post 47 ? Who can explain back the points I made with scripture ? I challenge anyone to do so, since that post was a refute to an respond I received from a question i posed !
Here is the question:
The response from a poster was:
don
Here is the question:
Is it possible for sinners that Christ died for, for their sins to be forgiven by God while they're in a unbelieving and rebellious state, much like as Paul was as saul persecuting the Church ? Yes or No ?
The response from a poster was:
don
"Is it possible"?
Is it possible for God to make a rock so heavy, even He can't lift it?
Your question is worded in such a way that you expect only a single answer. When it's pointed out that the question itself is erroneous, you fall to "why is everyone scared to answer?"
It's not that anyone's scared; it's that your question requires only the answer you want to hear.
So here's my answer, to your question as it's worded: No.
No one can answer.
You've stumped us all
We cower at your theological prowess
We whimper at your philosophical girth
We shudder to think that you'll discover, we are all frauds
Only you are the learned one
We marvel at the authority by which you speak
There. You have the great confession you seek...
Now go away
You've stumped us all
We cower at your theological prowess
We whimper at your philosophical girth
We shudder to think that you'll discover, we are all frauds
Only you are the learned one
We marvel at the authority by which you speak
There. You have the great confession you seek...
Now go away
This is SBM's post #47To say that those Christ died for are not forgiven of their sins completely before they believe and while they are enemies is to flat out deny the accomplishment of the Death and Blood of Christ !
All for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, ,unbelievers, they have been reconciled to God Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:
I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.to receive one into favour
Hence those Christ died for are received into the Favor of God, not based upon anything they did or did not do, but simply by the Death of Christ. Now man cannot be reconciled to God and in favor with Him if his sins have not been forgiven !
Don gave an answer in #48.
But in reality, no question was asked that demands an answer.
Does anyone understand post 47 ? Who can explain back the points I made with scripture ? I challenge anyone to do so, since that post was a refute to an respond I received from a question i posed !
Here is the question:
The response from a poster was:
don
Oh, please. You ask if anyone understood post #47? What about answering my questions in post #48? Or do you just want to ignore those?
savedbymercy
New Member
Redeem us from unbelief/iniquity !
Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
If Christ died for anyone who doesnt eventually in this life, believe in Him, come to Live by Faith as it is written Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
And if one for whom He died to redeem ends up as one of these Jn 8:24, dying in their sins in unbelief, then that means His Blood and or Redeeming Death failed the purpose of God to redeem them from all iniquity as Per Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
14 He gave himself for us in order to rescue us from every kind of lawless behavior, and cleanse a special people for himself who are eager to do good actions.CEB
14 He gave himself for us. He died to free us from all evil. He died to make us pure—people who belong only to him and who always want to do good.ERV
For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.
Yes, His Death was for that Purpose, for the producing the results of " redeeming us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
Now if just one for whom He died comese short of His death producing that result for them, the Redemption in His Blood has failed the Purpose of God for it, and whosoever teaches that one for whom Christ died, can yet die in their sins and unbelief as Per Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins., 553
They are teaching wilfully that Christ's Death was a failure, which makes them the servant of antichrist, teaching something that is against the success and purpose of Christ's Death for all whom He died !
Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
If Christ died for anyone who doesnt eventually in this life, believe in Him, come to Live by Faith as it is written Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
And if one for whom He died to redeem ends up as one of these Jn 8:24, dying in their sins in unbelief, then that means His Blood and or Redeeming Death failed the purpose of God to redeem them from all iniquity as Per Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
14 He gave himself for us in order to rescue us from every kind of lawless behavior, and cleanse a special people for himself who are eager to do good actions.CEB
14 He gave himself for us. He died to free us from all evil. He died to make us pure—people who belong only to him and who always want to do good.ERV
For he gave himself for us all, that he might rescue us from all our evil ways and make for himself a people of his own, clean and pure, with our hearts set upon living a life that is good.
Yes, His Death was for that Purpose, for the producing the results of " redeeming us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."
Now if just one for whom He died comese short of His death producing that result for them, the Redemption in His Blood has failed the Purpose of God for it, and whosoever teaches that one for whom Christ died, can yet die in their sins and unbelief as Per Jn 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins., 553
They are teaching wilfully that Christ's Death was a failure, which makes them the servant of antichrist, teaching something that is against the success and purpose of Christ's Death for all whom He died !
savedbymercy
New Member
It accomplished remission of sins which is Justification !
Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The word for eis is the prep meaning:
into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.
1519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.
Christ's Blood shed resulted in remission of sin, not a offer of it, not that it made it available if you accept it, but it was for the purpose of and resulted in for the many it was shed remission of their sins.
That word remission aphesis:
a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.
859 áphesis (from 863 /aphíēmi, "send away, forgive" ) – properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt.
In other words, the debt of death they owed for the wages of sin Rom 6:23 they are no longer under that debt, their debt is completely forgiven by the blood of Christ, and that is their Justification before God,
Its the same as stated in Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
That word redemption also equates to remission or forgiveness of sins, its the word apolutrósis:
release effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance.
/apolýtrōsis ("redemption, re-purchase") emphasizes the distance ("safety-margin") that results between the rescued person, and what previously enslaved them. For the believer, the prefix (575 /apó) looks back to God's effective work of grace, purchasing them from the debt of sin and bringing them to their new status (being in Christ).
You see that aspect of redemption that has to do with "purchasing them from the debt of sin " ? Thats exactly the same truth of remission or forgiveness which states:
"releasing someone from obligation or debt: And so Rom 3:24 says that those Christ shed His Blood for Matt 26:28 were by that Justified freely, by His Grace, through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus or as Eph 1:7 in His Blood !
This proves, whether its believed or not, but it proves that those whom Christ died for are by His Blood alone, they are Justified from all sin and due punishment for the same, for unto them, death as the wages of sin Per Rom 6:23 no longer exists, they have been released from that debt forever !
That word Justified in Rom 3:24 means:
I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
to clear (someone) of a charge or accusation, as in a court of law.
All this is accomplished for the Many He shed His Blood for, the Blood of the New Covenant Matt 26:28 ! Its a done deal yall !
Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The word for eis is the prep meaning:
into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.
1519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.
Christ's Blood shed resulted in remission of sin, not a offer of it, not that it made it available if you accept it, but it was for the purpose of and resulted in for the many it was shed remission of their sins.
That word remission aphesis:
a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.
859 áphesis (from 863 /aphíēmi, "send away, forgive" ) – properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt.
In other words, the debt of death they owed for the wages of sin Rom 6:23 they are no longer under that debt, their debt is completely forgiven by the blood of Christ, and that is their Justification before God,
Its the same as stated in Rom 3:24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
That word redemption also equates to remission or forgiveness of sins, its the word apolutrósis:
release effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance.
/apolýtrōsis ("redemption, re-purchase") emphasizes the distance ("safety-margin") that results between the rescued person, and what previously enslaved them. For the believer, the prefix (575 /apó) looks back to God's effective work of grace, purchasing them from the debt of sin and bringing them to their new status (being in Christ).
You see that aspect of redemption that has to do with "purchasing them from the debt of sin " ? Thats exactly the same truth of remission or forgiveness which states:
"releasing someone from obligation or debt: And so Rom 3:24 says that those Christ shed His Blood for Matt 26:28 were by that Justified freely, by His Grace, through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus or as Eph 1:7 in His Blood !
This proves, whether its believed or not, but it proves that those whom Christ died for are by His Blood alone, they are Justified from all sin and due punishment for the same, for unto them, death as the wages of sin Per Rom 6:23 no longer exists, they have been released from that debt forever !
That word Justified in Rom 3:24 means:
I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
to clear (someone) of a charge or accusation, as in a court of law.
All this is accomplished for the Many He shed His Blood for, the Blood of the New Covenant Matt 26:28 ! Its a done deal yall !
savedbymercy
New Member
It accomplished remission of sins which is Justification !2
Its good to consider a very important aspect of this matter of remission of sins due to the shed blood of Christ, the Blood of the New Covenant / Testament Matt 26:28 !
We should understand that this Covenant forgiveness through His Blood is the same as here Jer 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thats the same as the remission of sins in Matt 26:28 , its also the same testament or covenant in view !
The same here Mic 7:18-20
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
This Vs 20 here is the same as that Promised Mercy of Lk 1:72,77
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
And of course Christ's Blood is shed accordng to that Holy Covenant, for the remission of sins Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
See how all this fits together ?
Its good to consider a very important aspect of this matter of remission of sins due to the shed blood of Christ, the Blood of the New Covenant / Testament Matt 26:28 !
We should understand that this Covenant forgiveness through His Blood is the same as here Jer 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thats the same as the remission of sins in Matt 26:28 , its also the same testament or covenant in view !
The same here Mic 7:18-20
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.
This Vs 20 here is the same as that Promised Mercy of Lk 1:72,77
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
And of course Christ's Blood is shed accordng to that Holy Covenant, for the remission of sins Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
See how all this fits together ?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.