It is so plain in Gal 4

[Moriah]

Can't read too good can you? My very first line said:

Paul's treatment of "the works of the law" in Romans 2-7 includes the ten commandments mixed right in with all other parts of the Mosaic Law.

You teach that God nailed obeying and confession to the cross. That is not true what you teach for we can obey and confess, for that is how we are saved.

If you believe in the heart you are justified, with the mouth you confess AND ARE SAVED. See Romans 10:10.

 

[The Biblicist]

You teach that God nailed obeying and confession to the cross.

Lying and misreprenting me again. Find anywhere on this forum I have ever said such a silly thing? Find it or get used to being called a liar.


Moreover, what does this nonsensical lying charge have to do with "the law" and all that it includes??????????????? You are irrational!

If you believe in the heart you are justified, with the mouth you confess AND ARE SAVED. See Romans 10:10.

Romans 10:10 does not say one "MUST" confess with the mouth "IN ORDER TO" be saved. It only declares that those who do shall be saved. Moreover those who believe and are baptized shall be saved too! Moreover those who believe, confess, are baptized, joine the church, tithe, etc.,etc. shall be saved to.

 

[Moriah]

Lying and misreprenting me again. Find anywhere on this forum I have ever said such a silly thing? Find it or get used to being called a liar.

You teach faith only.
Deny that and it will be an accomplishment, for we must believe and obey.

Moreover, what does this nonsensical lying charge have to do with "the law" and all that it includes??????????????? You are irrational!

The Old Testament Law is the whole Law together.
Now obey the New Testament Law, the whole law together.

Romans 10:10 does not say one "MUST" confess with the mouth "IN ORDER TO" be saved. It only declares that those who do shall be saved. Moreover those who believe and are baptized shall be saved too! Moreover those who believe, confess, are baptized, joine the church, tithe, etc.,etc. shall be saved to.

You speak nonsense.
You are exposed easily for going against the Word of God.
Your defense to being in falseness is to pretend it never happened.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe in my heart and am justified, and with my mouth I confess and am saved.

We have to believe and obey.

Why?

To get saved, or to be kept saved, or just why?

 

[Moriah]

Why?

To get saved, or to be kept saved, or just why?

Both!

If a person wants God's Truth, I have shown how to find it.

If you want religion's truth, you have shown how to find it.

Not everyone who believes will be saved, only those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

 

[billwald]

"Paul's treatment of "the works of the law" in Romans 2-7 includes the ten commandments mixed right in with all other parts of the Mosaic Law."

Including the 10 Commandments and the prohibitions against specified female activities.

 

[billwald]

Does printing personal prayers on BB . . .

influence God more than prayers made in secret?

 

[Yeshua1]

Both!

If a person wants God's Truth, I have shown how to find it.

If you want religion's truth, you have shown how to find it.

Not everyone who believes will be saved, only those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

Which is to believe upon the name of His Son, and live!

 

[The Biblicist]

You teach faith only.
Deny that and it will be an accomplishment, for we must believe and obey.


The Old Testament Law is the whole Law together.
Now obey the New Testament Law, the whole law together.

You speak nonsense.
You are exposed easily for going against the Word of God.
Your defense to being in falseness is to pretend it never happened.

You are incapable of rational thinking. You simply lack common sense. Responding to your folly is foolish and a waste of my time as your incapable of understanding the simpliest things.

 

[steaver]

Not everyone who believes will be saved, only those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

Moriah, this is totally wrong. There is no such scripture nor teaching found in God's Word.

The scripture states....."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)

Anyone who believes (this must be a born of God belief, new heart, new creature) on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. Not all who say they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved. James teaches the same. There are many false confessors among the wheat. Our Lord will sort them out on the last day.

We all teach obedience to our Lord Jesus Christ. This is not something that must be forced, this is something that comes through the inward working of the Holy Spirit as the Word is proclaimed.

What you are failing to understand Moriah is the Grace of God and what grace means. We are saved by grace UNTO good works. Works or deeds or obedience are all products of the grace given to us and working in us. These do not save, these have no saving value! By grace are ye saved through faith and this NOT OF YOURSELF! Grasp hold of this Moriah, your obedience, as much as you boast of it, is only by the grace of God. God says NO BOASTING! Grace Moriah! Grace! Learn it, live it! Thank God for it!

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

Not everyone who believes will be saved, only those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

That is the Will of the Father, to believe on Christ whim He hath sent ! Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

mor



That is the Will of the Father, to believe on Christ whim He hath sent ! Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

GE:

Amen!

The problem with Protestantism today is, it no longer distinguishes its own - although it can - from Roman Catholicism. It prefers we all hold a common faith vis-à-vis secularism and pluralism's overwhelming majorities. Fear is it … sheltered in pretence.

 

[Yeshua1]

mor



That is the Will of the Father, to believe on Christ whim He hath sent ! Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So you admit now that the elct/saved by God MUST believe unto jesus to get saved?

 

[savedbymercy]

What did Christ mean here in this verse Matt 21:43

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Who knows what Nation is Jesus speaking of here ? Is it the Church ? If this Nation is the Church, then what Kind of Nation is it ? Is it Spiritual or natural ? If it is the Church, then is it the seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So what would be another name for a Spiritual Nation of the Seed of Abraham ? Israel !

 

[The Biblicist]

Gal 4:30

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

This the same Truth being confirmed here Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them[non heirs] be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Now the scripture is plain in this analogy that Paul was inspired to use in Gal 4, and that national israel according to the flesh @ Sinai is represented as hagar and her son ishmael Note:

Gal 4:24-25

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Which is cast out Gal 4:30


30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

That is national israel according to the flesh, and the promise is "for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."

That cuts off any hope of a future national israel heirship !

The physical nation of jews that were cast away, were not the people of God, Paul makes that clear Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Now that cannot be the People of Rom 11:15 that are cast away Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

This casting away is speaking of national israel, which could not have been God's People which He foreknew ! Or we have a big problem with Rom 11:1-2 !

This is a rediculous interpretation! If you are consistent with your interpretation than NO ISRAELITE can be saved as ALL NATURAL ISRAEL has been cut off and cast out. Thus if you are a Jew you cannot be saved!

However, multitudes of Israelites had been saved and were being saved under Paul's ministry as every single congregation he established consisted of Israelites.

You misunderstand the whole context of Galatians. He is addressing INDIVIDUALS (not the nation of Israel) that reject the covenant of grace and embrace the Old Covenant established at Mount Sinai.

What is cut off are all those INDIVIDUALS who reject grace and embrace works. Hagar represents the covenant of works and Ishmael represents all who embrace her as their mother (salvation).

 

[savedbymercy]

Rebuilding the Tabernacle of David !



If there was none other scripture passage that shows us that The Church and Israel are the same, its this Passage in Acts 15. What does James mean in that passage of Acts 15 of the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David ? Or the restoration of the Kingdom ? Acts 15:11-18

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

This is actually what it means for the Restoration of the Kingdom to Israel of Acts 1:6, and James by the power of the Holy Spirit applies the OT Prophecies to substantiate that.

Lets notice Amos 9:11-12

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this.

This is in the context of the restoration of Israel and notice how He [James] by the power of the Holy Spirit connects that Prophecy with what was then going on with the Church in Jerusalem and the Gentiles !

Lets compare Amos 9:12

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this.

With Acts 15:17

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

He also utilizes Isa 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Cp Acts 15:18

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.


This should more than enlighten us that the formation of the Jew and Gentile Church in Christ is the restoring of the Kingdom to Israel, the Israel of God, yes that Seed of Israel that in the Lord [Jesus Christ] shall be Justified and Glory Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. CP

1 Cor 1:31

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[savedbymercy]

What James is doing !



In Acts 15:13-18 James quote of the Prophecy Amos 9:11 is being applied to the Present New Covenant Era inaugurated by the Cross of Christ, His Blood shed of Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

of which now begins the conversion of multitudes of gentiles in restoring the Kingdom to Israel, for this was a Mystery being made known Acts 15:18 !

Paul would further elucidate Eph 3:3-6

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

This was indicating that the Tabernacle of David comprises of both Elect Jews and Gentiles who become Living Stones, builded together upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, to be a habitation of God through the Spirit Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5-6; Isa 28:16 !

 

[The Biblicist]

What James is doing !



In Acts 15:13-18 James quote of the Prophecy Amos 9:11 is being applied to the Present New Covenant Era inaugurated by the Cross of Christ, His Blood shed of Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament or covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

of which now begins the conversion of multitudes of gentiles in restoring the Kingdom to Israel, for this was a Mystery being made known Acts 15:18 !

Paul would further elucidate Eph 3:3-6

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

This was indicating that the Tabernacle of David comprises of both Elect Jews and Gentiles who become Living Stones, builded together upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, to be a habitation of God through the Spirit Matt 16:18; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5-6; Isa 28:16 !

You have the very same problem that Seve and Moriah have. You don't know how to debate. Indeed, you don't debate. In order to have a real debate:

1. You must present and make your case (you do this).

2. You can't merely respost your assertions to objections (this you do constantly).

3. You must deal explicitly with the objections to your assertions.


You rarely get past #2 and so it is worthless to discuss anything with you.

 

[savedbymercy]

He that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles



Rom 15:12

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

He that shall arise and reign over the Gentiles, from the root of Jesse, is speaking of Christ, and as stated here to rise and to rule the Gentiles, it is the very same as saying that He shall rule the House of Jacob !

Lk 1:33

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Acts 15 describes His Reign over the Gentiles Acts 15:16-17

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Dan 7:14

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion[reign] is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

So you see, the House of Jacob of Lk 1:33 is not literal physical descendants, but Spiritual Israel, comprised of Abraham's Spiritual descendants from both jew and gentile ! This is another proof that Israel and The Church, the Body of Christ are the same. Not National Physical Israel, but the Spiritual Israel of God !

 

[Yeshua1]

He that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles



Rom 15:12

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

He that shall arise and reign over the Gentiles, from the root of Jesse, is speaking of Christ, and as stated here to rise and to rule the Gentiles, it is the very same as saying that He shall rule the House of Jacob !

Lk 1:33

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Acts 15 describes His Reign over the Gentiles Acts 15:16-17

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Dan 7:14

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion[reign] is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

So you see, the House of Jacob of Lk 1:33 is not literal physical descendants, but Spiritual Israel, comprised of Abraham's Spiritual descendants from both jew and gentile ! This is another proof that Israel and The Church, the Body of Christ are the same. Not National Physical Israel, but the Spiritual Israel of God !

god calls those jews who placed faith in yeshua as their messiah Spiritual Isrealites, spiritual jews...

he is NOT saying Jews/Gentiles in the Church now are called that!