It takes more than belief in Jesus's promise for eternal life to be saved?

[HungryInherit]

A question for everyone that has posted:
Would you say then, that the gospel of John does not contain the saving message? If someone only read John and believed in Christ they are not saved?

 

[righteousdude2]

This would pose a conflict....

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

...Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in him and your will be saved!" It doesn't say, believe and do the following [except for being baptised]!"

To teach that more than belief is needed to be saved would be bordering upon work's salvation, and I would have to question that.

I do, however, believe that to be born-again by believing on Jesus means to go in a direction opposite of the one you were headed in when you professed your faith in him! From there, change is inevitable, as His Spirit comes into our life, and the Spirit makes the changes in a pace that best fits everyone's ability to believe and live for him! We are all on a path that is being carved out about he who saved and guides us to the narrow gate and eternity on the other side of that gate!

 

[HungryInherit]

...Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in him and your will be saved!" It doesn't say, believe and do the following [except for being baptised]!"

To teach that more than belief is needed to be saved would be bordering upon work's salvation, and I would have to question that.

I do, however, believe that to be born-again by believing on Jesus means to go in a direction opposite of the one you were headed in when you professed your faith in him! From there, change is inevitable, as His Spirit comes into our life, and the Spirit makes the changes in a pace that best fits everyone's ability to believe and live for him! We are all on a path that is being carved out about he who saved and guides us to the narrow gate and eternity on the other side of that gate!

I'm with you 100%, dude!

 

[Yeshua1]

A question for everyone that has posted:
Would you say then, that the gospel of John does not contain the saving message? If someone only read John and believed in Christ they are not saved?

NO!

The Holy Spirit inspired John to write that Gospel, and the message from God is just to believe upon God and the One that he sent, and you shall have eternal life!

just make sure the faith is genuine, and the Jesus is the real One!

 

[Winman]

If we must repent of our sins to be saved, why does Paul fail to mention this in 1st Corinthians 15?

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul here says we are saved if we keep in memory what he preached, how that Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again according to the scriptures.

I don't see Paul telling anyone here they have to repent of all their sins. Could someone please show where he says that? I must be missing something.

 

[Yeshua1]

If we must repent of our sins to be saved, why does Paul fail to mention this in 1st Corinthians 15?

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul here says we are saved if we keep in memory what he preached, how that Jesus died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, and that he rose again according to the scriptures.

I don't see Paul telling anyone here they have to repent of all their sins. Could someone please show where he says that? I must be missing something.

repenting means to change your mind, and go the right way...

think problem is that some say we must repent of all sins, stop doing them in order to prove really saved, THAT is not in the Bible!

I think to repent means to agree with God that I am a sinner, cannot do good works/deeds to save myself, and agree with God my ONLY hope is found in jesus Christ!

 

[IAMWEAK_2007]

A question for everyone that has posted:
Would you say then, that the gospel of John does not contain the saving message? If someone only read John and believed in Christ they are not saved?

I think it is very dangerous doctrine to rely on the 4 gospel alone for salvation. Salvation is discussed thoroughly in the book of Acts, Christ must ascend to heaven so Christ can send the Comforter only then we have a complete salvation, 1. Believing in Christ, 2. Repentance of your Sin 3. Baptism (immersion) 4. Receiving the Holy or being filled with Holy Spirit.

 

[IAMWEAK_2007]

The thief on the cross is just an example that believing to Christ and admitting your a sinner is sufficient enough for those who will not be able to be baptize or receive the holy spirit,because they died.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think it is very dangerous doctrine to rely on the 4 gospel alone for salvation. Salvation is discussed thoroughly in the book of Acts, Christ must ascend to heaven so Christ can send the Comforter only then we have a complete salvation, 1. Believing in Christ, 2. Repentance of your Sin 3. Baptism (immersion) 4. Receiving the Holy or being filled with Holy Spirit.

Repenting of being able to save yourself by actions, agreeing with God that as a sinenr only jesus will and can save you, and moment receive Him thru faith, are born again and having the Spriit indwell and seal you...

water baptism after all that happened, NOT required in order to be saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

The thief on the cross is just an example that believing to Christ and admitting your a sinner is sufficient enough for those who will not be able to be baptize or receive the holy spirit,because they died.

water baptism NOT required to get saved, for its all Grace of God alone, received thru faith alone, and ALL saved get the Spriit same way/same amount!

 

[canadyjd]

A question for everyone that has posted:
Would you say then, that the gospel of John does not contain the saving message? If someone only read John and believed in Christ they are not saved?

Of course the gospel of John contains the saving message of Christ. You've only pointed to a couple of verses in John (3:16-17) and not the whole. John 3:16-17 does not "say it all" as some maintain.

John 3:20-21 says "For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed (21) But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God".

It appears that John (under inspiration of Holy Spirit) is telling us that those who "believe" (v.16) are expected to "do" certain things that will validate their profession of faith.

1. they practice the truth
2. they come to the light
3. they manifest "deeds" that are credited to God and His power

Do the "deeds" get them saved? No, they are saved by grace.
Do the "deeds" evidence a transformed life? Yes, by the power of God.

peace to youraying:

 

[IAMWEAK_2007]

water baptism NOT required to get saved, for its all Grace of God alone, received thru faith alone, and ALL saved get the Spriit same way/same amount!

Yes True, you don't need to do anything good to be save its by FAITH Ep 8-9. But once you got save you don't stop there, but by grace of God you will now be able to do the following;

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes True, you don't need to do anything good to be save its by FAITH Ep 8-9. But once you got save you don't stop there, but by grace of God you will now be able to do the following;

Php_2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe

Weare to continue to grow and mature in the Grace and knowledge of jesus, but will NEVER attain a state of sinless perfection while here, never will fully 'arrive!"

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

1. Believing in Christ ...

What manner of belief? The demons believe and tremble, but they are not saved. The key is in here:

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

2. Repentance of your Sin

This is part of #1, the repentance being an agreement with God that we are indeed sinners in need of a savior, and He is Christ.

3. Baptism (immersion)

Absolutely unnecessary for salvation. It is but an outward testimony of the inward workings of the Holy Spirit to bring about faith of a salvic nature.

4. Receiving the Holy or being filled with Holy Spirit.

Which happens the instant you have believed to the point of salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

What manner of belief? The demons believe and tremble, but they are not saved. The key is in here:

Romans 10, NASB
8 But what does it say ? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart " - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

This is part of #1, the repentance being an agreement with God that we are indeed sinners in need of a savior, and He is Christ.

Absolutely unnecessary for salvation. It is but an outward testimony of the inward workings of the Holy Spirit to bring about faith of a salvic nature.

Which happens the instant you have believed to the point of salvation.

Our friend seems to have a small confusion on just what the real Gospel really is!

 

[saturneptune]

Demons "believe" . .and tremble.

Sometimes the Bible uses metonymy or synecdoche as "short cuts" in language.

Like "believe" or "faith". Is that ALL that is involved in salvation or is it a part that represents the whole package?

We condemn "Christians" (there's one of those "short cut" words!) who will pull a verse or a phrase and say THAT IS 100% of the Bible's teaching on the subject. Catholics do this on Mary; cruisematics do it on the holy Spirit gifts.

Put ALL the Word of God together, and we find "believe" is just one part of the wonderful doctrine of salvation. But don't think it is the ONLY thing. It the "package" we call SALVATION BY GRACE is regeneration, reconciliation, redemption, repentance, election, assurance, conversion, et al - each playing a particular role in the whole concept!

Thank you for that clear, concise post. The relationship between faith and works is extremely important. In fact, it was one of the major points of friction between our Savior while here on earth the religious authorities of the time. As you said, demons believe. Pharisees memorized rules and forced themselves to obey them, or at least by appearance.

I really like your definition of believe, to include regeneration, election, the whole process. When one has been saved by faith in Jesus Christ, the works afterward become a natural response to loving Him. We do not have to make ourselves obey Christ, or do what He says, it is our natural inclination to do such. Contrast that with the Pharisees (who are lost) and memorize and make themselves obey. It is so shallow, and a sure ticket to the Lake of Fire.

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is the most precious possession we have, and should treat it as such. This is one time one does not want to get the buggy before the horse in relation to faith and works. We are all blessed that James was not left out of the Canon.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thank you for that clear, concise post. The relationship between faith and works is extremely important. In fact, it was one of the major points of friction between our Savior while here on earth the religious authorities of the time. As you said, demons believe. Pharisees memorized rules and forced themselves to obey them, or at least by appearance.

I really like your definition of believe, to include regeneration, election, the whole process. When one has been saved by faith in Jesus Christ, the works afterward become a natural response to loving Him. We do not have to make ourselves obey Christ, or do what He says, it is our natural inclination to do such. Contrast that with the Pharisees (who are lost) and memorize and make themselves obey. It is so shallow, and a sure ticket to the Lake of Fire.

Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ is the most precious possession we have, and should treat it as such. This is one time one does not want to get the buggy before the horse in relation to faith and works. We are all blessed that James was not left out of the Canon.

true belief in jesus means more then knowing all the facts about Him, as cult members know that...

its to realise that he alone died to pay for all my sins, and I come to God and trust on him fully, so that on Him the solid rock i stand, all others are but sinking sand!

 

[MB]

A lot of posters in Amy's (closed) thread, EWF in particular seem to claim a person also needs to "show" a change in character or conversion. It is clear in John that belief in Jesus for eternal life is all that is necessary and you should be absolutely sure the moment that you believe that. Can someone explain, with scripture, why repentance, or changing your character are required for eternal life?

A man with an unrepentant heart has not turned from his sin and turned to Christ. The word it self means to "turn" from one thing to another. Everyman that has trusted in Christ has turned from his sin because he cannot have two masters.
MB