It's What You Do

[Hark]

John 10:16. "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

Certainly.


Not at all. Our Lord's sheep are a special breed. They are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice and they follow Him (John 10:27). Anyone who does not hear His voice and rejects the Gospel is not of His sheep QED. The Lord Jesus spent all His life on earth in Israel, preaching almost exclusively to the Jews. "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24). Therefore the sheep 'not of this fold' are the Gentiles who have not yet heard the Shepherd's voice. The Lord Jesus would bring these in also, not in Person, but through His disciples. Therefore He bids them, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations....." (Matt. 28:19). As I said, I think this is quite clear and rather obvious.

Thanks for sharing, but some clarification is needed for me to receive that application.

You said not in Person, but yet He did say other sheep that is not of the fold that followed His voice as that He must bring. He did not say that the sheep that followed His voice must bring them.

And so I discern some more of your application in that verse;

John 10:16. "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

He distinguished the fold as the ones that followed His voice, and not the stranger's voice, and yet He signified that He had other sheep not of that fold that followed His voice, thus signifying the ones that followed the stranger's voice as His sheep after all as they will be MADE to hear His voice and be of the one fold and one shepherd.

I understand it, but I don't agree with it. The sheep follow the Shepherd's voice. Anyone who has repented of His sins and is trusting (present tense) in Christ alone for salvation is part of Christ's flock. I am not by any means a charismatic, but if charismatics are trusting in Christ alone for salvation, then they are part of Christ's flock and my brothers and sisters in Him.

They are brothers and sisters in Christ that has that foundation which was laid in Christ Jesus, but what they have built on that foundation is an iniquity for climbing up another way to get tongues; not from Jesus, but from the Holy Spirit by asking Him to come again to fill them in order to receive that tongue as a sign that they had received the "Holy Spirit" again. 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2

This was the iniquity Paul was talking about in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter as it was already at work in the churches back the thus the falling away from the faith was even happening back then but not in droves all over the world as it is today.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.....
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

For believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" with evidence of tongues, God will permit that strong delusion to occur as the Holy Spirit will not restrain these spirits from coming in when the believers are departing from faith to want that to happen.

Unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes, they run the risk of being damned as castaways to be received again as vessels unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation. It is a damnation because they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House after the pre trib rapture.

Paul points out a reminder as to when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth and that was at the hearing of the gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

To the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ is to be received as that vessel unto honor in His House. 2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 2 Timothy 2:19-21

I know that these errant believers that fall away from the faith are still saved because Paul goes into the next chapter on the tail about speaking of that iniquity where wicked and unreasonable men not having faith and not following after he traditions taught of us and are disorderly ( 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 ) as many in these movements of the Spirit are, in falling down ( Matthew 7:24-27 & Proverbs 25:26-28 ) and other signs and lying wonders like tongues that comes with no interpretation which is given in confusion which God is not the author of ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 & Isaiah 8:19 ) , and yet Paul says we are commanded to withdraw from them, not treating them as the enemy, but admonishing them as brothers still. 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

And so that is why I see those that followed a stranger's voice are saved believers that went astray by climbing up another way to God by addressing the Holy Spirit to come in hypocrisy when He is already in them to bring tongues which always comes with no interpretation. ( Granted, some will wing the interpreting of that tongue, but it is not really a foreign language that any linguist can verify. )

It all preaches to receive the Holy Spirit "again" and that is apostasy and why that is considered climbing up another way ( John 10:1 & John 14:6 ) when the Holy Spirit cannot answers prayers; only Jesus Christ can; John 14:13-14

And so God permit that strong delusion to occur to believe that lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again and thus why saved believers are following a stranger's voice and why they are His sheep still in spite of having fallen away from the faith as He must bring them after the great tribulation when He will be there to see and hear thus made to hear His voice and follow Him in serving Him as the King of kings, being made of the one fold and one shepherd for He will not lose one ( John 6:39 ).

 

[Protestant]

I agree that they are astray, but it is another to say that they are not saved. Let God judge that.

First, let me respond by saying Martin M. speaks the truth. He is one of several Board members who rightly understand the doctrines Jesus teaches in John 10 and elsewhere.

Re: Christians judging:

It is our God-given duty to judge…….with righteous judgment (John 7:24).

Our foundation, rule and standard is the infallible Word of God.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (Isa. 8:20).

This truth is exemplified by metaphor in Rev. 11:1-2:

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The Apostle John, who represents those Christians appointed to expound the Word of God, was told to measure, with a reed, the temple of God, the altar and worshippers therein.

His reed-like measuring rod signifies the Word of God by which we discover what is truthful and what is not; what is of God and what is not.

The temple of God has been re-defined in NT terms: Christians are now considered the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17). Thus, by using God’s Word Christians are able to judge the true Church from the false.

This is the predominate theme throughout the Revelation.

There has been and will continue to be a holy war between the virgin Bride of Christ, New Jerusalem (the true Church), and the Mystery Babylon, the Whore (the false Church).

The altar signifies Christ’s sacrifice. By using God’s Word Christians are able to judge which view of Christ’s atonement is correct, such as:

Does God require another sacrifice or sacrifices?

Will God accept such sacrifices?

Did Christ atone for the sins of all people, including the Gentiles whom God has commanded John leave out?

Was Christ's sacrifice insufficient, requiring Purgatory to complete our sanctification?

John’s measuring of the people worshipping within the temple signifies our duty to understand what it is to be a true Christian, a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ who worships God in Spirit and truth.

And then there is the outer court of the Temple. The Gentiles who inhabit this portion are those who profess to be Christians, but are not.

These false Christians can be identified by their profane mode of worship, their profane lifestyle, their profane doctrines, their profane sacrifices and their profane murdering of the true saints (i.e. God’s holy city, New Jerusalem).

In other words, these false Christians do not measure up to God’s holy standards and are not to be counted among the called, chosen and faithful (Revelation 17:14).

Church history testifies to the intense struggle between these two Churches.

The false Church depicted in the Revelation (and elsewhere) has been unanimously identified as the Roman Catholic Church by true Christians for a minimum of 1,000 years.

The officeholder of the Papacy has been unanimously identified as the Antichrist by true Christians for a minimum of 1,000 years.

No other religious organization or officeholder has fulfilled or ever will fulfill the numerous prophecies as delineated in Scripture.

That being said, the testimony against the Roman Church and her Head, the Pope, is so damning and incontrovertible, one need be a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader to insist the Church of Rome is Christian and its leader worthy of honor, reverence and praise.

To be spiritually blind, deaf and dead is to be unsaved.

To be a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader is to be under the judgment and wrath of an angry God.

To be a disciple of a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader is also to be under the judgment and wrath of an angry God.

And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

 

[Hark]

First, let me respond by saying Martin M. speaks the truth. He is one of several Board members who rightly understand the doctrines Jesus teaches in John 10 and elsewhere.

Re: Christians judging:

It is our God-given duty to judge…….with righteous judgment (John 7:24).

Our foundation, rule and standard is the infallible Word of God.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (Isa. 8:20).

This truth is exemplified by metaphor in Rev. 11:1-2:

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The Apostle John, who represents those Christians appointed to expound the Word of God, was told to measure, with a reed, the temple of God, the altar and worshippers therein.

His reed-like measuring rod signifies the Word of God by which we discover what is truthful and what is not; what is of God and what is not.

The temple of God has been re-defined in NT terms: Christians are now considered the temple of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17). Thus, by using God’s Word Christians are able to judge the true Church from the false.

This is the predominate theme throughout the Revelation.

There has been and will continue to be a holy war between the virgin Bride of Christ, New Jerusalem (the true Church), and the Mystery Babylon, the Whore (the false Church).

The altar signifies Christ’s sacrifice. By using God’s Word Christians are able to judge which view of Christ’s atonement is correct, such as:

Does God require another sacrifice or sacrifices?

Will God accept such sacrifices?

Did Christ atone for the sins of all people, including the Gentiles whom God has commanded John leave out?

Was Christ's sacrifice insufficient, requiring Purgatory to complete our sanctification?

John’s measuring of the people worshipping within the temple signifies our duty to understand what it is to be a true Christian, a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ who worships God in Spirit and truth.

And then there is the outer court of the Temple. The Gentiles who inhabit this portion are those who profess to be Christians, but are not.

These false Christians can be identified by their profane mode of worship, their profane lifestyle, their profane doctrines, their profane sacrifices and their profane murdering of the true saints (i.e. God’s holy city, New Jerusalem).

In other words, these false Christians do not measure up to God’s holy standards and are not to be counted among the called, chosen and faithful (Revelation 17:14).

Church history testifies to the intense struggle between these two Churches.

The false Church depicted in the Revelation (and elsewhere) has been unanimously identified as the Roman Catholic Church by true Christians for a minimum of 1,000 years.

The officeholder of the Papacy has been unanimously identified as the Antichrist by true Christians for a minimum of 1,000 years.

No other religious organization or officeholder has fulfilled or ever will fulfill the numerous prophecies as delineated in Scripture.

That being said, the testimony against the Roman Church and her Head, the Pope, is so damning and incontrovertible, one need be a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader to insist the Church of Rome is Christian and its leader worthy of honor, reverence and praise.

To be spiritually blind, deaf and dead is to be unsaved.

To be a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader is to be under the judgment and wrath of an angry God.

To be a disciple of a spiritually blind, deaf and dead evangelical leader is also to be under the judgment and wrath of an angry God.

And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

I am willing to discern & learn with His help, if Martin is correct, but I am not seeing his application addressing everything about that verse yet.

I believe the elect are Christ the firstfruits and those saints not abiding in Him are those left behind to be received later on as they that be Christ at His coming. So there will be His disciples and those saved believers not being His disciples.

In relation to what you have posted, how does 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 applies if how you are applying those scriptural references are true?

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

My question is; why did Paul still address them as a brother that do not follow after the tradition taught of us; that are without faith and being wicked and unreasonable men?

If one was to say that " Well, any professing believer would be called a brother until he is found to be false." then I could understand that in trying to apply it to your application but...

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

... Paul had us commanded to withdraw from them but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers because they are still our brothers.

So this is why I am having a hard time accepting your application.

You could preach to a Catholic about the Good News over and over again, but it would go in one ear and out the other. It is by exposing the dead works of catholicism by the gospel is how God minister to those that are astray. By using the light of the gospel to expose the works of darkness, is how God may be peradventuring to recover them to repentance after the knowledge of the truth.

The foundation I believe has been laid. It is works on that foundation that is denying Him that a believer needs to get rid of by His grace &by His help.

Of course, it is on God to cause the increase still by any one that ministers.

 

[utilyan]

Matt. 5:1-2. '.....And when He was seated, His disciples came to Him. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying.......'

Using that same logic you'll do a 180 with John 6.
John 6 many of his disciples left him, Judas Iscariot is not only disciple but Apostle.

 

[utilyan]

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Perhaps the Lord will make an exception for you.

It’s risky, but what the hey, give it a shot.

After all, you have nothing to lose...........but your eternal soul.

I think you quoted a bible verse, I didn't read it. Should I engage the good works of reading what you have to say?
Does my good works have any bearing in salvation?

We hear that saying talk the talk, walk the walk.

You don't believe in "faith alone".



If I was a believer of Faith Alone, I wouldn't even be talking with you are advising you of anything. Since my GOOD WORKS of helping you has no bearing. I would only be contacting God on this matter alone.

Even a response from you, is the best proof of a lack of faith. Your already convinced God needs your help.

 

[Hark]

I think you quoted a bible verse, I didn't read it. Should I engage the good works of reading what you have to say?
Does my good works have any bearing in salvation?

We hear that saying talk the talk, walk the walk.

You don't believe in "faith alone".

If I was a believer of Faith Alone, I wouldn't even be talking with you are advising you of anything. Since my GOOD WORKS of helping you has no bearing. I would only be contacting God on this matter alone.

Even a response from you, is the best proof of a lack of faith. Your already convinced God needs your help.

If any of His disciples respond in a situation like that, it is because of someone's lack of faith.

Since keeping the faith is the good fight and it is on God to cause the increase as only God can be peradventuring to recover some from the snare of the devil, then none of His disciples can say it was his good work when it was His good work.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

He enables us to serve Him. So how can any one glory in works in service of Him?

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

I think the reward in verse 8 is seeing what the Lord has done through using him from which he would give thanksgiving and glory to the Lord.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Thanks for sharing, but some clarification is needed for me to receive that application.

I will respond, but it may not be for a few days. My church is celebrating its 50th Anniversary and we have a lot of stuff going on, so I'm a bit busy.

 

[Protestant]

I think you quoted a bible verse, I didn't read it.

Of course you didn’t read it.

The lemming/what me worry? mentality prevalent among Roman Catholics does not allow for the reading, let alone for the serious personal study of God’s Word.

If the Magisterium or priesthood declares what you are to believe, your duty is to believe and do what you are told, without question.

That would include the command to remove your altar boy knickers.

We Protestant Christians hold to the Berean approach.

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)

 

[utilyan]

Of course you didn’t read it.

The lemming/what me worry? mentality prevalent among Roman Catholics does not allow for the reading, let alone for the serious personal study of God’s Word.

If the Magisterium or priesthood declares what you are to believe, your duty is to believe and do what you are told, without question.

That would include the command to remove your altar boy knickers.

We Protestant Christians hold to the Berean approach.

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)

Well the Bereans require the GOOD WORK of examining the scriptures.

Again I'm just pointing out how "FAITH ALONE" is a lie. You are my best case.

You can't take it on faith alone for anyone to change. It requires a GOOD WORK of intervention of some kind.

You talk the talk, don't walk the walk.

 

[Hark]

I will respond, but it may not be for a few days. My church is celebrating its 50th Anniversary and we have a lot of stuff going on, so I'm a bit busy.

Okay. Thanks for letting me know. God be willing, we may continue this discussion and in Christ's love too.Thumbsup

Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

 

[Hark]

We Protestant Christians hold to the Berean approach.

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. (Acts 17:11)

Proverbs 27:2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.

Not all Protestant Christians hold to the Berean approach. If they did, they would examined the Scriptures every day to see if what the Protestant churches said was true.

God addressing the seven churches in Revelation where five of them needed correction and two needed exhortation to continue proves that not all the believers in those churches would be holding to the Berean approach.

I need the Lord everyday in every situation all day to abide in Him and His words. I am glad of His promise that He is with us & in us always.

 

[Hark]

Well the Bereans require the GOOD WORK of examining the scriptures.

Again I'm just pointing out how "FAITH ALONE" is a lie. You are my best case.

You can't take it on faith alone for anyone to change. It requires a GOOD WORK of intervention of some kind.

You talk the talk, don't walk the walk.

The Lord's intervention. The Lord's work.

Any believer can preach until they are blue in the face, but unless the Lord is ministering, there will be no increase from what was preached.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

2 Corinthians 4: 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

So do you feel that the works of catholicism places you under the letter to do good work or is His yoke is easy and His burden light after all?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[DHK]

Well the Bereans require the GOOD WORK of examining the scriptures.

Again I'm just pointing out how "FAITH ALONE" is a lie. You are my best case.

You can't take it on faith alone for anyone to change. It requires a GOOD WORK of intervention of some kind.

You talk the talk, don't walk the walk.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Paul went to a Jewish synagogue in Berea. These people already had a thorough knowledge of the OT.
Then they heard the gospel, that is at this time that Christ was the Messiah and that he died, was buried and rose again.
Through their use of their Scriptures, the OT alone, they verified that what Paul said is true--that indeed Christ is the Messiah, and that he did rise again. The Scriptures did prophesy this event and it has happened. Based on the veracity of both the Scriptures and the truthfulness of what Paul was saying many believed.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

It was not based on tradition or the RCC, etc. It was based on sola scriptura.

 

[Protestant]

Not all Protestant Christians hold to the Berean approach.

Your public piety and humility is noted.

However, rather than take your authority as the final word, I will follow the Berean approach: Please specify with proof, who exactly, among professing Protestant Christians does not hold to the Berean approach.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The sermon on the mount was to first time hearers, that's why it ends with them being astonished at his authority and doctrine.

Matt. 5:1-2. '.....And when He was seated, His disciples came to Him. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying.......'

Using that same logic you'll do a 180 with John 6.
John 6 many of his disciples left him, Judas Iscariot is not only disciple but Apostle.

The purpose of my post was only to show that the Sermon on the Mount was not to first time hearers. It was to disciples. That some of them proved not to be true disciples, or 'disciples indeed' (John 8:31) by not abiding in our Lord's word is true but has no relevance. It they were disciples they could not have been first time hearers ipso facto.

 

[Hark]

Your public piety and humility is noted.

However, rather than take your authority as the final word, I will follow the Berean approach: Please specify with proof, who exactly, among professing Protestant Christians does not hold to the Berean approach.

Any church that makes a commitment to follow Christ; and as if that was not enough, any churches after that, making the seven promises of the Promise Keepers' program, and any other promises that only God can keep of which we are supposed to be applying faith in Jesus Christ to do in us so we can follow Him by faith. Galatians 3:1-3 & Numbers 30:2 & Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 & Matthew 5:33-37 & Galatians 5:1 & Galatians 5:5 & Philippians 1:6 & Philippians 1:11 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25

Any church that includes the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son because it is the Father's will that the only way to come to in order to honor the Father in worship ( John 14:6 ) is to honor & glorify the Son ( John 5:23 & John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ) which is exactly what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 ).

If any church or believer was applying the Berean approach to scripture, they would know that the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was not Biblical in introducing the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son, because the Holy Spirit & scripture would never lead a believer to do that in speaking of Himself as the Holy Spirit to honor the Holy Spirit and to glorify the Holy Spirit in worship.

If any church or believer was applying the Berean approach to scripture, they would know that Jesus had asked for no vow, promise, or commitment from His disciples or from believers to follow Him because He knew what was in them that is in their flesh.

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

He knew that believers could not keep such a thing, however, this is why He said to deny yourself, pick up your cross in being identified with Him, and follow Him by faith; by trusting Him to help you to follow Him.

2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

The New Covenant lacks nothing that requires a promise from us to finish. All that is required in doing the works of God in us and in our lives to those around us is to believe Him that He will do it.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I believe Jesus warned all believers about false prophets coming into the churches in how it will be ecumenical in nature so that we may know the means that is taking our eyes off of Jesus and our faith in Him is a false prophet. Matthew 7:13-16 So the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son, the Bridegroom, as the abiding bride of Christ should do because He will be returning soon. Luke 13:24-30

I know that we all have different growth in the Lord, but with the help of our Good Shepherd. keeping the faith is the good fight, and the end result of the Berean approach to the scripture as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the KJV Bible is the meat of His words to discern good & evil by in these latter days.

 

[Protestant]

Any church that includes the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son because it is the Father's will that the only way to come to in order to honor the Father in worship ( John 14:6 ) is to honor & glorify the Son ( John 5:23 & John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 ) which is exactly what the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 ).

If any church or believer was applying the Berean approach to scripture, they would know that the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. was not Biblical in introducing the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son, because the Holy Spirit & scripture would never lead a believer to do that in speaking of Himself as the Holy Spirit to honor the Holy Spirit and to glorify the Holy Spirit in worship.

If any church or believer was applying the Berean approach to scripture, they would know that Jesus had asked for no vow, promise, or commitment from His disciples or from believers to follow Him because He knew what was in them that is in their flesh.

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

He knew that believers could not keep such a thing, however, this is why He said to deny yourself, pick up your cross in being identified with Him, and follow Him by faith; by trusting Him to help you to follow Him.

2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

The New Covenant lacks nothing that requires a promise from us to finish. All that is required in doing the works of God in us and in our lives to those around us is to believe Him that He will do it.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I believe Jesus warned all believers about false prophets coming into the churches in how it will be ecumenical in nature so that we may know the means that is taking our eyes off of Jesus and our faith in Him is a false prophet. Matthew 7:13-16 So the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son, the Bridegroom, as the abiding bride of Christ should do because He will be returning soon. Luke 13:24-30

I know that we all have different growth in the Lord, but with the help of our Good Shepherd. keeping the faith is the good fight, and the end result of the Berean approach to the scripture as kept by those that loved Him & His words in the KJV Bible is the meat of His words to discern good & evil by in these latter days.

Just be clear, are you denying the deity of the Holy Spirit, as well as denying the doctrine of the Trinity?

 

[utilyan]

The purpose of my post was only to show that the Sermon on the Mount was not to first time hearers. It was to disciples. That some of them proved not to be true disciples, or 'disciples indeed' (John 8:31) by not abiding in our Lord's word is true but has no relevance. It they were disciples they could not have been first time hearers ipso facto.

Rather convenient to leave out the whole verse
Matthew 5

1When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,


Matthew 4: 25Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.



Matthew 7

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
28When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; 29for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.



Maybe if you explained the parable of The DAMNED Samaritan I can understand your point of view.

 

[Hark]

Just be clear, are you denying the deity of the Holy Spirit, as well as denying the doctrine of the Trinity?

Nope to both questions.

The Holy Spirit is God and is a Person of the Triune God but He is not sent to lead believers to speak of Himself when He cannot speak of Himself in seeking His own glory. John 5:31 & John 7:18

The Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) and so how is He going to do that except through us ( John 15:27 )

The Father's will is to honor the Son; John 5:23 The moment we stop honoring the Son which the indwelling Holy Spirit will never lead us to do, is when we stop honoring God the Father.

The glory of God is in His Son; John 13:31-32

The only way to come to God the Father in worship is through the Son ( John 14:6 )

This is the mind of Christ we are to have; Philippians 2:5 and what Paul said he wanted everybody to obey ( Philippians 12-13 ) because the name of Jesus is above every other name to the glory of God the Father ( Philippians 2:6-11 )

So has the Bereans proved by the scripture that the "practice" of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son is the will of God for us to do?

I cannot find such an specific instructions to do that kind of worship anywhere in the scripture, but I have given references on what the will of the Father is in how He pointedly and singularly wants us to worship Him by and that is by way of the Son which is exactly what the Holy Spirit in us will lead us to do as the scriptures says.

I can only imagine that when we as individual believers testify of the Son to glorify the Son in worship and by Him, God the Father, in order for our worship to be true in according to His words, is if the Holy Spirit shares in the same testimony of the Son in honoring Him in worship. John 8:17

The Nicene creed of 381 A.D. which was done for ecumenical purposes which is the fruit of the false prophet ( Matthew 7:14-16 ) is responsible for introducing the unscriptural practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son.

From there, hymnals made it popular and then deviated by putting the spotlight solely on the Holy Spirit in some hymnals and sung as if the believers singing that hymnal has not received the Holy Spirit yet.

You will find scripture about the Holy Spirit is God and a Person of the Triune God, and you will find some will misuse and misapply the verse God is Spirit and those that worship Him in spirit and in truth to mean that we are to worship the Holy Spirit , but that would be taking out of context and the meaning of Jesus's message for what He was testifying of.

There is no instruction in any of the epistles of the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son. It is a tradition never cleared by the Bereans and it is an assumption for a practice not based in scripture.

What's the problem is that it broadens the way in the worship place on how God the Father wants us to come to Him by ( John 10:1 & John 14:6 ) and widened like that with the Holy Spirit included in focus in worship, seducing spirits can come in and do signs and lying wonders.

The problem is that when it happens, they think that was the Holy Spirit, and call on the Holy Spirit to visit again to fall on them with signs again and again and again.

They assume that because the Holy Spirit is God, it is okay to pray to the Holy Spirit and viola chaos and confusion which God is not the author of.

The solution to avoid that thief breaking through is to narrow the way back to the straight gate; Luke 13:24 as all invitations points to the Son in coming to God the Father in worship because there are seducing spirits in the world that would love to steal the spotlight off of the Son in worship to lure believers to chase after them for a sign.

That is why the real indwelling Holy Spirit will NOT speak of Himself,( John 16:13 ) but of the Son ( John 15:26 ) in keeping the spotlight on the Son in seeking His glory in worship ( John 16:14 ) and thereby glorifying God the Father as well. Scripture explains the role of the Holy Spirit and the will of the Father in how He wants us to come to Him in anything which is by way of the Son and to worship the Father by honoring & glorifying the Son in worship, because there is no other way to honor & glorify God the Father by.

This is a wake up call given by the Lord for those that use the Berean approach to scripture in proving everything by the meat of the KJV.

May God cause the increase.

 

[Protestant]

Nope to both questions.

Thanks, I needed that clarity.

Now would you kindly answer the original question with specifics, naming names, rather than vague generalities and hearsay:

Please specify with proof, who exactly, among professing Protestant Christians does not hold to the Berean approach.