I've never known a Calvinist...

[Brother Bob]

Thanks Helen, but let me see if I can explain this in another way. You will admit if your wrong won't you?
Have you ever been angry?
Have you said things you wished you had not?
Have you thought things you wished you had not?
Are you always humble as a little child?

Do you see what I mean about the warfare. The above things will not be in Heaven and the Spirit does not work like that either but the natural mind does. That is what is the warfare, that is why: It will be sown in corruption, and raised incorruptle: Sown a natural but raised a Spiritual, sown in weakness raised in power: Sown in dishonor but raised in Glory.

Apostle Paul became angry with Barnabus and likewise until they had to part. Being angry is not part of being perfect as the Spirit is.

Trouble:
I have had 2 open heart surgeries, 2 neck artery surgeries, double hernia surgery with mesh holding my guts in, and I too was given up for dead. Called my wife in and told her I would not live through the night but thanks to God, I am still here. I live in pain also, but I preached today for about an hour. I attend all the funerals and go where ever I am called, so what have I got to complain about. I learned when I first became sick to live with what I had and it has worked very well for me. I didn't want to drag my family down with my sickness, but it is different when its your wife for you can't go down the hall to surgery for her but have to stand back as she has done for me so many times. Oh yes, I love my wife I am sure as Barry loves you and I think that is precious in the eyes of the Lord.
Hope I didn't get to personal.

 

[Helen]

Thanks Helen, but let me see if I can explain this in another way. You will admit if your wrong won't you?
God has sure made sure I've learned how to do that!

Have you ever been angry?
Yup, but it's what I do with that anger that is the crux of the matter, right? Not that I have always done the best, but I sure know how to repent!

Have you said things you wished you had not?
Of course. But I'm learning to shut up a lot better than I used to, and it's great to know the Lord hasn't given up on me!

Have you thought things you wished you had not?
Not too much anymore. Didn't realize that until you asked the question, though. The Holy Spirit really has brought me a long way! He is incredible!

Are you always humble as a little child?
A lot better than I used to be. You see, a good part of the peace is knowing that the Holy Spirit is transforming me and that when I do something wrong He is faithful to bring it to my attention so that I can repent, be forgiven, and move on. I find a real peace in that!

My peace is not that I am perfect, but that I am in good hands. It is because God is faithful that I can be at peace, not because I'm anything special. I guess the best way to say it is that He is the one battling for me against my flesh now and all I have to do is follow Him. It's when I take my eyes off Him that I start getting wet! But He's great with towels!

You are not at all too personal. You've been through a lot and you have known pain and disappointment and frustration. If we didn't, how could our lives be a witness to the world?

And yes, it is so very different when it is not you, but someone you love. When it is you, you are busy -- busy fighting the pain, the infection, or whatever. When it is someone you love, you feel so helpless! We will be praying for you both. Please let us know how things go Thursday and after. God bless you both.

Have friends due for dinner shortly. I'll check in again tomorrow.

 

[Brother Bob]

posted by Helen:

Thanks Helen, but let me see if I can explain this in another way. You will admit if your wrong won't you?
God has sure made sure I've learned how to do that!

Have you ever been angry?
Yup, but it's what I do with that anger that is the crux of the matter, right? Not that I have always done the best, but I sure know how to repent!

Have you said things you wished you had not?
Of course. But I'm learning to shut up a lot better than I used to, and it's great to know the Lord hasn't given up on me!

Have you thought things you wished you had not?
Not too much anymore. Didn't realize that until you asked the question, though. The Holy Spirit really has brought me a long way! He is incredible!

Are you always humble as a little child?
A lot better than I used to be. You see, a good part of the peace is knowing that the Holy Spirit is transforming me and that when I do something wrong He is faithful to bring it to my attention so that I can repent, be forgiven, and move on. I find a real peace in that!

What you have just said is what we are calling the warfare Helen, The Spirit don't do those things, and thanks for your prayers.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Helen:
npetreley, Paul had chosen to serve God long before. He was a trained Pharisee and was careful to obey the law in every way he knew. He considered Christians to be a damaging cult, heretical to the true Scripture. When Jesus confronted him on the road to Damascus, He was telling Paul that the truth was not where he thought it was, not that Paul's desire for truth was not there. Paul was seeking. He found.

I certainly did no more than that.

In the meantime, your mocking shows far more of the fruits of Calvinism than I think you want it to show.

Helen, you confuse the fact that Paul was religious with the idea that Paul was really serving God. He most certainly had not chosen to serve the true God. He had chosen to serve a god of his own making. That is what the Bible calls idolatry.

Just because people are religious and seek to do what they consider to be right does not mean they are seeking God. It means they are seeking to be justified by their own works. It means they are seeking a god that will be the type of god they want him to be. This is not what it means to seek God. It is sin.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Helen:
If anyone else tings he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
Philippians 3:4b-6

Paul makes it clear he was seeking to do what was right. Granted his confidence was in the flesh at that point, but that was all he knew which would please God. And despite his wrong heading, God knew his heart and turned him around.

So, you are admitting that you believe that God saves people because of their own works? Even though Paul's works were wrong, because his heart was in the right place, God decided to save him?

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
All of The Apostles were chosen. I will give that to the Calvibaptist. Its the whole world I am concerned about and they have a choice even from the beginning of time.

Acts, chapter 9

"15": But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
"16": For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Why are the epistles of the NT written to the elect?

Colossians 3:12-13 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

2 John 1:1-2 THE ELDER, To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth, 2 because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Why are believers described as "the called-out ones," which is the Greek word eklesia, translated "church?"

1 Corinthians 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 To the church (eklesia) of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church (eklesia) of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church (eklesia) of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.

Ephesians 1:22 - 2:1 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church (eklesia), 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church (eklesia), who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church (eklesia) of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church (eklesia) of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Get the picture? Words mean something. Believers are said to be the elect. Believers are described as called. The group of believers are the called-out ones.

This would mean that those who reject the gospel are the non-elect (or reprobate). Those who reject the gospel are not called. Those who reject the gospel are not the called-out ones.

This is why I am a calvinist. The Bible tells me so.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
Just because people are religious and seek to do what they consider to be right does not mean they are seeking God. It means they are seeking to be justified by their own works. It means they are seeking a god that will be the type of god they want him to be. This is not what it means to seek God. It is sin.

In fact, Jesus called people like this sons of the devil. That doesn't mean that anyone who believes they can be justified by their own works is out of the reach of salvation (with God anything is possible), but Jesus didn't say "they're sons of the devil but their hearts are in the right place".

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Apostle Paul was a chosen vessel to preach to the Gentiles. He was part of the plan of Salvation. I don't think Helen claims to be an Apostle.

No, she claims to be better than apostles. Not only did she choose Christ instead of being chosen by Him, she doesn't even have any fleshly desires warring against the Spirit.

 

[Helen]

Why are you distorting what I say? What pleasure do you get from that sort of thing?

 

[Helen]

Bob, when I think of 'war' I think of the internal battles I knew before I was born again and then of those I had to deal with when I was trying to intellectualize my faith after I was born again. The battles before I was born again were the worst, for I was always trying to make excuses for what I knew was wrong. I was the epitome of Romans 7, wanting to do what was right in my heart and totally unable to do it and then making incredible excuses to myself and lying to others. Then I would have to remember the lies and follow through on them so I wouldn't be caught. And all the while I wanted to be better and the kind of person I couldn't get myself to be.

THAT is war.

What happens now is not even a shadow of that so I just can't call it war. It looks like you call it war, but for me it is simply a matter of taking my eyes of Jesus and paying attention to myself. I always stumble then, and I am always sorry for it and He always picks me back up. But I can see what He has been doing with me through the years and so there is an incredible peace that transcends even my stumbling. I know I am His and I know He is improving me and training me, even using my stumbles as lessons for me. So it doesn't feel like a war to me. It feels more like training sessions and me learning, sometimes despite my mistakes and sometimes because of them.

But compared to before I was saved, this doesn't even count as a skirmish! It was internal war before that tore me apart inside. Now I just roll my proverbial eyes at myself and say to myself "you did it again, dummy!" I don't need to make excuses. I don't need to lie. I don't need to fight myself. I just go to the Lord and apologize and learn and watch Him more closely.

Maybe for some people that is a war. For me it is a joy. Paul said that in all things he was content. I have learned what he was talking about. It doesn't mean you are perfect. It doesn't mean you are without pain or sadness or even regret. It does mean that you are in totally secure and strong Hands and that He will supply all our needs.

In my life He has been gracious enough to prove Himself to me and I can rest in His love and training and forgiveness and patience and mercy. Of course I sin. I don't want to, but I do. And a lot of them are getting a lot less in frequency, and so I know He has not given up on me but WILL finish the good work He began.

That is enough. I am content and at peace in that knowledge.

 

[Brother Bob]

Calvibaptist:
Because when you are born again you become "The Elect" is why the epistles are to the "Elect". The Church is made up of believers and the believers are the "Elect".
You are no longer of the world for I have chosen you out of the world. There is not a bunch of families of God, there is only one.
The "City" is made up of both Israel and Gentiles and they become as one, if they choose to serve God instead of satan. "Choose you this day whom ye shall server" and "seek the Lord in your youth while He may be found", etc.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:

Get the picture? Words mean something. Believers are said to be the elect. Believers are described as called. The group of believers are the called-out ones.

This would mean that those who reject the gospel are the non-elect (or reprobate). Those who reject the gospel are not called. Those who reject the gospel are not the called-out ones.

This is why I am a calvinist. The Bible tells me so.

"Those who reject the gospel are not called".

Many ARE Called, few ARE chosen.


"Those who reject the gospel are not the called-out ones."

Do you think it's possible they were in the group of "MANY" who were called, but closed their eyes/ears to the "CALLING"??

Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal (save) them.

The only difference in God's calling is made in the "hearts" of the "Hearer", their "belief/unbelief", obedience/disobedience.

God's no respecter of persons, especially with the "Calling".