I've never known a free willer...

[npetreley]

I've never known a free willer who didn't think he/she was saved. And they all believe they made the right free will decision on their own, yet only a few of them admit to taking some of the credit for their own salvation.

So I was wondering, are they really trusting in Christ, or are they trusting in the wisdom of their own decision?

 

[npetreley]

I don't think this deserves a response either, but I felt it deserved equal time.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by npetreley:
I've never known a free willer who didn't think he/she was saved.

I know that this is in response to Helen's other topic, but I can tell you that the answer is "yes."

Once upon a time I had a friend, a licensed minister, of the Arminian Baptist persuasion who was convinced that he had forfeited his salvation because of sin and that he could never be forgiven.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27, KJV)

It was an anguish of the soul, and I daresay he isn't an isolated case.

 

[Grasshopper]

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27, KJV)

It was an anguish of the soul, and I daresay he isn't an isolated case.

Yes. if we can choose God, why can't we un-choose Him? Does God take away our free-will for salvation once we are saved?

Sorry, your saved, no more free-will.

 

[npetreley]

Good points about people who think they have lost their salvation. That hadn't occurred to me.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Grasshopper:
Yes. if we can choose God, why can't we un-choose Him? Does God take away our free-will for salvation once we are saved?

Sorry, your saved, no more free-will.

LOL, you can choose to jump off a cliff. Can you then choose, on the way down, to unjump?

When you have said yes to God, you are born again. You can't be unborn. The Holy Spirit will be, and is, faithful to finish the good work He started in you.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Helen:
LOL, you can choose to jump off a cliff. Can you then choose, on the way down, to unjump?

Hey, that's almost a good way to describe Calvinism. Every man by nature chooses to jump off a cliff. They can't choose to unjump. The only way to be saved is if God has decided beforehand to catch them. Helen, I do believe you're beginning to see the light.

 

[Helen]

Back it up one step if you want to CHOOSE that example. Every man has a choice regarding whether to jump or not. But it's a little different that what you are thinking. God will catch whomever jumps. But you cannot, in the words of another, be safe and be saved. If you don't jump you will never be caught by God. If you don't let go of the 'safety' of yourself, you will only have yourself forever and that, truly, is hell enough! Not all the hell there is, but bad enough, certainly!

 

[npetreley]

I was just kidding Helen. But you put stretch marks in that analogy that not even the most brilliant plastic surgeon could fix.

 

[Helen]

It's not my analogy. It is one I heard before that I enjoyed.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Let's see here. Every man has jumped oof that cliff of sin headed for Hell. Yet only a few are saved. Or, were you trying to equate being saved with jumping off a cliff. I am not sure your analogy works in your favor. I mean, when I was saved, it was from the danger of Hell and not into more danger.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[J.D.]

Originally posted by npetreley:
I've never known a free willer who didn't think he/she was saved. And they all believe they made the right free will decision on their own, yet only a few of them admit to taking some of the credit for their own salvation.

So I was wondering, are they really trusting in Christ, or are they trusting in the wisdom of their own decision?

I think Baptists try to be careful about taking glory from God, even though their arminian theology betrays them; but some of the charismatics don't seem to mind takig as much glory as they can get.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by J.D.:
I think Baptists try to be careful about taking glory from God, even though their arminian theology betrays them; but some of the charismatics don't seem to mind takig as much glory as they can get.

As I said, I only posed it as a satirical comment on the Calvinist thread, but I do think that pride is at the heart of the free will argument. It all comes down to "I can't take credit for earning salvation through works, but at least I can boast that I made the right decision of my own free will." Of course very few free willers would ever admit to that (although some have, surprisingly), but IMO, that's what it's all about.