Jack Hyles "Cult" ?

Regardless of whether or not you think J.H was framed or not the fact of the matter is his legacy is the biggest piece of evidence against him.
For example strictly as a analogy to make a point Adrian Rogers just died.
Grant it he was from the SBC but a great expositor of the Word. Helped to build one of the largest churches in the world. His radio broadcast still furthers his ministry.
You won't find anybody in all of baptist circles and without who can say a bad thing about that man. Maybe some liberals but that is it.
My point is this . A man in the ministry that lives consistantly above reproach in all areas of his life is going to leave a legacy behind him that mirrors his life. The same is true of a person who leaves a tarnished legacy.
If some conspired to frame J.H then friends it was of mammoth porportions. Impossible would be a better word.
Too many people with to many testimonies of either sad or bizarre or downright vulgar accounts of what took place under the umbrella of J.H's ministry to conclude differently. There may be no "smoking gun" in the sad demise of J.H. but friends their is enough cicumstancial evidence to sink a battleship.
JH liked to brag about his importance to the ministry. How far his influence reached. Well to whom much is given much is required. If he really was the caliber of man that people thought he was then he himself would have realized the magnitude of responsibliity that was granted him.
History is a great refiner of the accomplisments of men. Not to mention the Bema Seat.

 

Lest just toss out all the unethical charges against him and deal with his theological problems. He had more then one, from saying nobody can be saved apart from a KJV, to likening the Holy Spirit to a women and using sexual undertones to describe Him.

The man had problems, fortunatly his problems don't effect me and his followers are a shrinking group.

 

Not addressing Hyles directly but here is another good example of how God uses people. We see it over and over and over yet many never seem to 'get it'. IT IS NOT THE MESSENGER! It is God and His Word that matters, and He uses all kinds of corrupt flesh, mine being chief, to transmit it. He uses the faithful teachers and the false teachers, the faithful evangelist and the fleecer of the flock.

That said, I can identify with your sentiment for Hyles as I had a similar experience with someone else.

 

Great post shannon :thumbs:

Hyles and Adrian Rogers do not even belong in the same post together.

 

:laugh: Shannon--thanks for the compliment (I think) from all your SBC brothers and sisters in Christ!!!!:smilewinkgrin:

Bro Tony
SBC Pastor

 

bapmom, I have to disagree with you here. Hyles himself spent more time bringing the focus around to himself over Christ. He also consistantly brought forth lies concerning his soul-winning experiences, his actions towards other preachers and college presidents, etc. His books were not written to glorify Christ. I have many on my shelf...the central focus is Hyles and his actions. His preaching revealed the same...I have many hours of tape preached by the man. He wanted his people to be more like him than anyone else...and that is in many of his sermons.

I was there personally when he blasted our college president in front of a group of students after preaching. He said he never denegrated another pastor or college president, but, inside of no more than 15 miinutes he had blasted not only the college president, but, his chosen replacement for the following year. He also stated that we shouldn't be at "this college" but, that we should be in a "Godly college" like HAC.

I'm sorry, but I cannot and will not let a statement like yours ride without the truth being set forth.

 

I don't think that we can, or should separate the unethical charges against him from his theological problems, as they were ALL a part of the man's ministry and legacy, which by the way has continued through his son in law, though I must admit that his SIL is a bit of an improvement.

Ruining people's marriages, hailing child molestors as "hero's", sending his son to pastor a church in Texas knowing of the problems his son had, and then standing in front of his own congregation and preaching that people should be "Holy" was something that cannot be separated from his theology. It was engrained in his theology..

 

I humbly disagree. Jack Hyles built the cult with his self-aggrandizement. I heard him make statements like "I am greater than any of the Apostles(this is in reference to his Pentecost Sunday)," "If I told these men behind me on the pulpit to do so, they would kiss my feet/jump off a bridge." Hyles relished the attention, and built himself up as King.

 

I wasn't suggesting we overlook them, I was challenging those who already igonore them so see another problem with Jack Hyles- his theology. The guy was really screwed up on some things and nobody within the fundamentalist movement said a thing about some of his writtings; at least nobody in prominant positions.

 

Ok AVL,

I don't know anything about what you refer to. I only go by what Ive heard him say myself.

 

Do I understand you right? Are you saying you will not listen to anyone but "the man"? Even if family members say he lied, you will not believe unless he says he lied. Even if ones that worked right beside him said he lied, you'll not believe it till you hear it from his lips? You will not listen to anyone but him? Not his son? Not his sons exwife? Not those that worked in his office? Just him?

What if he lied?

lets look at what AVL said...

You do the math...it could not happen. I'm sure you can see this is a lie. He lied.

How about this one..

Do you think AVL just made this up? He said he had many books by him and tapes as well. He went to see Jack when he heard this. Do you think AVL is just out to get Jack? It sounds like to me that AVL use to like the guy, or was giving him a 2nd chance. AVL was not blasting Jack, he only stated what he saw.


Will you not believe him?

 

JArthur,

I did not word that reply very well, and Im sorry. But no, I was not saying that I only believe what Hyles himself has said. Like Ive said before, Im not all that invested in all this. What I meant was that I can only know for sure about his theologies based on what Ive read that he has written and what Ive heard him say myself. Too many times Ive heard things claimed that preachers said, when I was there myself and know that wasn't what was said. A couple years ago I was at a Pastor's School in Hammond and Jack Schaap was preaching on tithing. He was making a point that he believes that Cain's sacrifice was rejected for several reasons, one being that it was not a "firstfruits" sacrifice. He specifically said that it was also because it wasn't a blood sacrifice, but yet later I heard another preacher calling him a "Seventh Day Adventist" because he was taking the blood out of salvation. Do you see what I mean? Two people sitting under the same sermon can hear two very different things sometimes.

I am in no way doubting what AVL said, and if he got that impression than I do apologize for not being more clear. I can imagine that it is possible that what AVL heard was Hyles razzing the college president, not really cutting him down, and AVL took it the wrong way. The idea that you can't be right spiritually unless you are at HAC was such a ridiculous extreme that some went to, that it became a joke that the leaders would refer to in that eye-rolling, joking sort of manner.....which if you didn't realize it could probably come across as serious. I can also say that if J. Hyles really thought it was an ungodly college than he probably wouldn't have been preaching there. He really was very much of a separationist when it came to things like that....whether we like that aspect of him or not. I did not say any of this in my last post because I did not want it to look as if I was calling AVL's character into question.....because that certainly is not my intention. If he's right, he's right. If he misunderstood, ok, but what good does it do to try to figure that all out now?

JArthur,
Im actually not saying I believe either way. In fact what Im trying to say is that I reserve judgement. I know too many other people, also close to Hyles, who claim his innocence. I can't just discount all those people I know personally, can I? Should I just assume that they are lying? Some of them are good friends of mine. One of them is my own pastor.

I don't know much about any of it when it comes to claims like he lied about personal soul winning experiences......

One thing Im pretty sure of, those times when he sounded like he was bragging were when he was trying to say "look at what God can do!" If God can see people saved through a poor, raggedy son of a town drunkard, than imagine what God can do through you. One thing I noticed is that, especially in the latter years, he tended to leave alot of things unsaid within his sermon. He'd start a thought and then just leave it hanging, I think expecting his listeners to extrapolate his meaning. I think most of his church members by then actually COULD extrapolate his meaning....but it left the rest of us wondering what on earth he was trying to say. It also left alot of room for people to imagine that he meant some different things than he really meant.

Originally I only got involved in this because I thought I had a few insights as to why this "cult-like" attitude took over with some people. I essentially choose to hold myself apart and reserve judgement. I don't find it necessary to have a judgement on this, despite who I am around all the time.