Jack Hyles & Hyles Anderson College

[Psalm145 3]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Why didn't Jesus or any of the apostles EVER use the term "soul winners" or "soulwinning"? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Those who win others to faith in Jesus Christ are promised a special reward in heaven, a "crown of rejoicing."

1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

 

[Bro Shaun]

Amen Psalm 145:3!

 

[david reed]

Dr. Griffin,
I am an IFB'R. I have been all of my life.
I love the King James Bible. I try to dress
right. I knew Dr. Hyles. I heard him preach
while I was at a very young age, and stayed
in semi-close fellowship with him up until
his home going this past winter. He was not
perfect, but he sure showed many hell bound
sinners the road to Calvary. How about remembering that before ripping him apart.

 

[Dr. Bob]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>WAY BACK ON PAGE ONE I posted an answer to the original question:
Jack Hyles was a very gifted public speaker and motivator. He held some really wrong doctrinal views and a lot of really warped cultural views.

Because his church looked in the eyes of men to be a success many tried to emulate his manners, preaching, methods. He held "schools" so pastors could learn, sold 24 million books, a gazillion cassette tapes are still floating around, and, if you go by the church he pastored, a 45 foot mural of himself painted on an outside wall (ala Saddam Hussein)

If you go to JackHyles.net and link to the Fightin Fundamentalist Forum, you can read from hundreds of "survivors" who safely escaped from that mentality. His was a short-lived type of pseudo-fundamentalism that gives us real ifb'ers a bad name!

There are some that will never see anything he did as "evil" or even "questionable". They will probably post and start shooting at me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It has taken a while for someone to come out of the woods and start shooting at me! The more that is known, the fewer defenders rise to honor the image.

To this young man I write: God bless you for your faith and loyalty to Dr. Hyles. I could write TONS (whole books have been written about him and his son) but elect not to. I stand by my words that much of his doctrine was wrong and that much of his teaching on separation were cultural.

Head over to the FFF and talk to the folks there. My job is to lift up and glorify Christ, not Jack.

 

[Bro Shaun]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
It has taken a while for someone to come out of the woods and start shooting at me! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But how quickly you come out shooting at Godly men. You may not agree with Dr. Hyles' methods, but the result was better than anything you can explain.

 

[superdave]

I have talked to many "survivors" as Dr. Griffin called them, several who escaped to my IFB school while I was there who told me things that belong more in a setting with David Koresh and the ATF than in any so called fundamental Baptist organization! Anybody can do outward appearance! I am not discounting the fact the Dr. Hyles was used greatly by God. But so were the Persians and the Babylonians. God using a man is no measure of the man! There are plenty of Churches and schools that I could name that have great success, but you would attack for being pragmatic and man-centered. I could accuse Hyles of the same character, just different methods. God looks on the heart, why don't we ask him, instead of counting Sunday School Buses.

 

[Pastor Larry]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by superdave:
I am not discounting the fact the Dr. Hyles was used greatly by God. But so were the Persians and the Babylonians.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this belongs on the funny quotes page. That is a good one. Very true ... and very funny. Of course, I guess I should kick dirt on the grave of the greatest man to walk the earth since the Apostle Paul.

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

[Dr. Bob]

Pastor Larry - Please come over to the FFF and hear from the actual people involved in the JH and DH scandals, sordid affairs, cover-ups.

No gossip. 100% first hand. One contributor was a member at Miller Road through it all. Get some facts and open your eyes.

Or don't. Remain loyal to an image, to one you imagine to be great. Clinton still has a ton of supporters out there, while the rest of us with functioning brains scratch our heads and say, "Why"?

link: http://www.jackhyles.net/bforum.mv

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

[Pastor Larry]

Dr. Bob,

I thought the statement about God using the Persians and Babylonians (or whatever it said) was right on. I was mocking those who support Hyles. I have no use whatsoever for Hyles or anyone who supports him. I was never a fan of his. He maybe the most dangerous person for fundamental Christianity in the last 30 years. He was full of heresy, ungodliness, and outright foolishness. There is no evidence whatsoever that these thousands and thousands of conversions involved biblical salvation in anyway. I was just having a little fun at the expense of those who won't open their eyes to see the truth about him.

 

[DocCas]

Larry, I am certainly no fan of Jack Hyles nor his sycophantic followers, but perhaps you should reconsider your tendency to mock those you disagree with. The bible has some very strong things to say about mockery.

 

[Pastor Larry]

First a correction I just noticed. I omitted a word that should have been included. (No wonder I prefer Alexandrian manuscripts ... they are more my style ...) (In case someone missed it, that was a little attempt at mild self-deprecating humor, not a statement on textual specifics.)

I said, "I guess I should kick dirt on the grave of the greatest man to walk the earth since the Apostle Paul."

I meant to say, "I guess I should not kick dirt on the grave of the greatest man to walk the earth since the Apostle Paul."

As to the mocking, this is not a matter where there is legitimate disagreement over the facts and the truth. The truth is clear but there are a large number of people who have closed their minds to it and continue their cult-like attitude that approaches worship. These people seem to almost believe Hyles was the greatest man to walk the earth since the apostle Paul, maybe even since Christ. That is the attitude that is completely without merit and that is what I was poking fun at. I do not have a "tendency" to mock. In fact, I don't think I have ever done it on this board ... though I may have forgotten. I use irony and sarcasm as a way to make a point when I consider it to be appropriate.

When someone has an honest disagreement over a legitimate point of discussion, I do not mock them. I enjoy and participate in vigorous discussions about legitimate points. There are those who do not know the truth about Hyles and are genuinely "in the dark." They are those for whom gentle correction and discussion can be had. There is a much larger group of people whose minds are willfully blinded to the truth even though they know it. My comment about kicking dirt on his grave was directed at that type of mentality.

If some were offended, then please accept my apologies.

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

[Chick Daniels]

Thomas Cassidy said, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Larry, I am certainly no fan of Jack Hyles nor his sycophantic followers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thomas, "Sycophantic" is an excellent word to describe the followers. I have predicted that the situation there in Hammond will go on as usually for maybe about 10 years. The followers will be able to carry on in memory of the recently deceased Hyles. After a decade or so, there will be an increasing number there that did not know Hyles personally. As these folks attempt to make changes, and interject proposals that the old guard disapprove of, there will be a split, then the old guard of loyalists will split themselves, because they won't be able to agree on which side Jack would have taken, etc.

I honestly feel sorry for these folks. I know a full-blown Hyles supporter personally. He finished "Graduate" work at the "College". He told me that Hyles has [this was while he was still living] absolute authority and is answerable to NNE. And (my friend went on to say) he loved this fact, and could not imagine it to be any other way. BTW, this person willfully ignores any existence of the book by Glover and the articles printed by Sumner.

Chick

 

[david reed]

Dr. Bob,
I have no idea what FFF is. I am not a member of 1st Baptist in Hammond. I was Dr.
Hyles friend. I did not worship him. I worship my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I am not a member of the BBF, and have no ties
whatever to Springfield. I do subscribe to
the Sword of the Lord, but have no other ties
to them either. I am a member of an independent, autonomous, local Baptist church.
I know that Dr. Hyles had problems. I know he was not perfect, and to be quite honest, I must say that I could not have served in his church, knowing some of the problems that exsisted there; but that does not give me the right to speak ill of the man
or to automatically discount every conversion
under his ministry.
Are you perfect, Dr. Bob? Are you without
sin? I know I'm not. I lean more on 1st John 1:9 today than I ever have. With as much wrong in the world as there is today, How about fighting Sin, not Soldiers

 

[Dr. Bob]

David - when I point out a sin that was public and well-known and never repented of, I am not attacking a man. He's already faced the Lord; who am I to judge now?

I am pointing this out to his loyal minions who have closed their eyes and ears to the evil, false and pernicious actions and attitudes prevalent in that ministry. I think you may find a few places in the Bible where sin was pointed out! (Try I Corinthians if you're stumped).

And do come visit the FFF at http://jackhyles.net/bforum.mv

Pastor Larry - Man, I apologize! I blew right past the biting satire in your post and thought you were one of those laying flowers at the 45 foot mural of JH! And I love humor; my satire sometimes bites back.

 

[Nicole]

OKAY OKAY, so I really need to work on this self control issue!!! Sorry but he left himself wide open on this one...but, from what I've seen, people here have a sense of humor....for the most part so here's what I just couldn't resist adding:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bro Shaun:
the ass is symbolic of false prophets and apostates.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummmm Bro Shaun I don't know you and from what you've written and I've seen here, you probably have good intentions so don't take offense at my fun...but during the time spent analyzing what symbolic meaning God had for this or that...I think there is one more symbolization that exists for an ass.

NICOLE HAS JUST DUCKED UNDER HER COMPUTER FOR A FEW MOMENTS!!! Someone let me know when alls clear.

 

[Barnabas H.]

All clear, you can come out now. Incidentally just because Mr. Shaun uses "questionable" words, which can be profane when used as a slang - it would be wise if we refrain repeating it. Thanks.

 

[Nicole]

Goodness, I just have to say that during the time I've spent here and the postings and discussions I've read, I really respect what Dr. Bob and Pastor Larry have to say! And honestly...it's not just because I seem to agree with them on most things, it's not that alone, but take a look at how they RESPOND to others. I mean afterall, isn't this board here for us to discuss and state our opinions and beliefs. From what I've seen, most of the time when people have disagreed with them they have accepted it as your own free will, yet there are certain people who from the tone of their responses pretty much have a complete coniption fit when someone doesn't share their belief.
I mean, yes there are many different kinds of baptist. But ultimatly, the only thing that should matter is that we submit ourselves to GOD and what he wants from us. If he isn't using you in the same way he is using me...SO WHAT. Yes, I'm Independant Baptist and yes, there are people in my church and even friends of minefriends who don't share my opinion on television, women and pants, all that good stuff but, that's ok. If a sister in Christ feels convicted in her heart by the holy spirit that she shouldn't where pants than by all means she needs to follow that. Ultimatly we all have our own "stumbling blocks" what may present itself as a stumbling block to me, you may never have even thought of because it isn't one for you. In the end all that really matters is that God knows your heart. ONLY GOD and YOU. When I slip my pants on in the morning, if it was in heart that I was choosing attire so as to make me lust after me, or to boast on my body, then yeah, that wouldn't be right, but that's not what I do. I put them on mainly because I would rather not give the neighborhood a peep show when I'm outside jumping on the trampoline with my three boys. And if I get a response to this with someone coming up with some kind of symbolism referring to women and jumping, well, I just might have to...uh, get a little silly.

Anyway, if everyone would just turn their eyes to God, I think some of you would be much happier. Because no matter how badly you want people to agree with you...if your not speaking from the spirit...it's not going to be very effective anyhow.

 

[Nicole]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B. J. Halo:
All clear, you can come out now. Incidentally just because Mr. Shaun uses "questionable" words, which can be profane when used as a slang - it would be wise if we refrain repeating it. Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YIKES! Sorry about that...I honestly wasn't even THINKING of it in terms of the curse word. I was thinking more of something I used to hear back home. Something like "dumb as a donkey" and a donkey can also be referred to as an ass. Goodness. I just opened mouth inserted foot. Sorry everyone...that really wasn't my heart...and even with the dumb as a donkey thing...I think I made it clear that I was just kidding. I wouldn't maliciously insult someone...really, i'm not like that...ask my mom

(kidding again...MAKE ME STOP) ok, i'm gonna slink back under the computer again now...

 

[david reed]

Dr. Bob,
I truly hope that we did not get off to
to rocky of a start. I also hope that I do not come across as a Hyles zealot. I was raised in a home where he was often a visitor
and we had a good relationship.
Please don't think that I condone the sin he fell into. Also, please forgive me if I said anything to you that was offensive. I
believe in honoring (not worshipping) the Man of God, and I trust that you will look
over my shortcomings.

 

[Dr. Bob]

David - I often say things that I truly believe but in a way that doesn't always come out as intended. I take most posts in such light and hope you "cut me some slack" too.

And as you've probably figured out by now, 85% of the people on the BB don't really even know much if anything about Jack. He was a "legend" in a very small group of Baptist churches. I always figured that this was the way MOST Baptists believed.

Isn't so.

And I believe that as pastors mature and begin to be weaned from the cult of personality and the numbers racket we will actually see stronger churches, more used of God, with lasting real results.

That whole generation of men who built empires on themselves are dying out. If good men replace them, there is hope that something more than wood, hay and stubble will last.

Look forward to debating with you and shooting at you on many more threads!