Jack Hyles Pastor School

You said, "You sound angry." That is the classic attempt to attribute my observation to a personal issue or fault on my part: anger. This is the classic Hyles defense method . . . one in which I was well trained & very capable.

Why did I stay there so long? Simple: I stayed until the scales fell. I was gone the next day. I had the opportunity to observe him on a personal and family level, and I did not like what I saw. I also knew what kind of son he had produced, and the lengths he had gone to excuse and cover up his episodes. I would think that I am entitled to that informed point of view based on firsthand experience without being personally marginalized . . . . .

I am not out to "vilify a dead man." For you to equate a valid criticism that nobody can disprove with pejorative labels is both unfortunate and sad. I am simply out to set the record straight when it comes to people still buying into his many myths and 40 years of self-agrandizement, especially the one about being a "great soul winner." The man left this earth without the record of so much as one personal convert that anyone can name. That, my friends, is a fact that has stood unassailed for twenty years, during which the man spent coutnless hours in my presence bragging about his many evangelical feats. The question is very simple: how do we reconcile those two sets facts?

One way is to name some of his converts, which none of you can apparently do. If one thing is obvious by now, it is that.

 

There are people on staff there, who have been there for 30+ years. They obviously don't see it the way you do...

 

How do you think cults begin? Do you really think they begin by people following someone who is orthodox?

A few years ago I began working with a man who had been a major leader in a "Christian" cult for 14 years. When I first met him it was hard to believe how far off base he was. It took him a long time to come to where the truth was without mixing it with what he had been taught and had taught.

 

So has Benny Hinn and Robert Tilton spoken to quite a number too. Heretics abound all over.

 

Jack Hyles is dead.

Jesus Christ is alive.

People who go to HAC are being pointed to Jesus Christ - not Jack Hyles.

Therefore, it would hardly qualify as a cult.

Our Associate Pastors just got back from Pastor's School at First Baptist in Hammond, and as usual, had a great time of fellowship in the Lord, which included a wonderful learning experience.

My church is anything but a cult.

I am through defending Jack Hyles. His crowns will tell the story...

 

Funny that Fresh Oil was mentioned.... thats what I was listening to when I was reading through the posts.... Yes, Jack Hyles had his faults, as so many of the great preachers do/did. But please realize that he did do great things not only at HAC but at the First Baptist Church of Hammond.... The Lord used him, and it is not up to us to question his salvation.

 

Obviously some good folks here cannot or will not address my original point: Jack Hyles advocated personal "soul winning" and demanded it of all others around him with no exceptions, yet there is NO record of so much as ONE of his personal converts.

This is not about a defense, or an attack; it is about that glaring incongruency in the man's life! Think what you will about him, as that is your business, but be realistic and honest in your overall appraisal. Two books and a TV documentary attest to his inconsistencies.

I too have been blessed by Pastor's School. I also worked and taught there. But if we are going to measure success by numbers, then we should heap more praise on the Mormons.

By the way . . . I know a great deal about how those numbers are achieved. I personally contributed thousands, perhaps more than anyone. Trust me . . . . you don't want to know the details. (Can you say "one-two-three . . . ")

Meanwhile, why don't we leave it to Jesus Christ to hand out crowns . . .

 

I was an IFB for 12 years until the Lord opened my eyes to the truth, yes there are some wonderful people in IFB churches, but it is centered around the works of man. BTW, Jack Hyles was a deceiver and so are many more IFB "preachers".

 

As are a lot of "preachers" in any denomination...

 

I have been in IFB churches for 25 years in a variety of roles. Here is the problem: they all want to raise personal preferences to the level of Bible doctrine. Hyles was a classic, albeit extreme example: one cannot be saved other than through a King James Bible. Please . . . . how does a man spouting that kind of nonsense maintain any credibility? How can his defenders not be sorely misguided Christians?
His other examples of deviancy have filled books & devastated many, many families. I have worked with these people for years. To excuse his transgressions under the banner of his human imperfection is to borrow a line right out of Bill Clinton's play book. A pastor is to be "beyond reproach." No IFB pastor has ever missed this mark by as much as Jack Hyles.

You can talk about the "new" FBC Hammond all you want . . . it is built on a corrupt foundation. They have a lovely "whited wall," but until they come clean about their past and stop playing the same numbers games, (no repentance salvations, 1-2-3-epeat-after-me, no follow up, no discipleship, no growing Christians to back up the numbers) they don't deserve any more respect than they had in the 90's. Lets not forget that awful family / church feud over Jack Hyles $26 million as well.

The whole IFB world is a shallow, deceptive mess led by some of the dullest knives to be found in any drawer, and its has a horribly checkered past. I am sad to see anyone defend any part of it, from Hyles on down. I thank God I am out of it. I can't count the pastors on both hands that I knew who are in prison, disgraced, divorced, or compromised in the ugliest of ways.

Surely we can all do better.

 

Please don't use such a wide brush to paint the "IFB world".

Just because you have had bad experiences in IFB churches does not give you the right to condemn ALL IFB churches (including mine). The statement you made is certainly un-Christ-like and is not edifying to anyone.

Not all IFB churches are like you describe. I have been in and around them since 1976 and have never entered (or been encouraged to enter) into 'man worship'.

I attend a wonderful IFB church where the Pastor not only 'talks the talk' but 'walks the walk'.

Sterotyping is NEVER a good thing...

 

The church that Sue attends is indeed a good IFB church. Her pastor (Dr. S. M. Davis) spoke at one of the colleges I attended, and I have been there to his church. It is one of the IFB churches that is on an even keel.

Painting all IFB churches as bad seed isn't a good thing. Painting all SBC churches as "liberal" isn't such a good thing, either, as I have found out. I belong to a SBC church that is quite conservative as a matter of fact, yet many IFB call it a liberal church. They could probably learn some things from our church. Again, I state that Hyles was a man, and mankind is subject to flaws. Schaap is no different. Both have brought people to Christ. I don't HAVE to agree with everything they do. I don't have to particularly like HAC/FBCH or Pastor's School. I do, however, have to pray for souls to be won.

 

Oh, by the way, Dr. K...it is not our OBLIGATION to supply you with any names of ANYONE who has been led to Christ through any single person. This doesn't necessarily mean we're defending anyone in particular, or running from you. Take it as you will. Without their permission, I will not permit their names to be aired in a public forum.

 

Please explain how "Joe's Baptist Church & Emporium" is so much better than the church Sue attends (a typical and more representative church of the IFB movement)? Else, stop slandering the IFB movement.
DHK

 

I'm still pondering what a 100% Baptist is. LOL

 

My church is a part of the IFB world, as are my pastor and his staff. I'll thank you to not tar any of them with the same brush you do Jack Hyles and First Baptist. I have a pastor and pastoral staff that walks the walk, and they certainly don't deserve the IFB blast.

Many people have issues with Dr. Hyles, deservedly so from what I read. However, Dr. Hyles is dead and it seems to me that looking forward to the future is far more profitable than blasting everybody in an IFB church because of things that happened in the past, a past that not all of us were a part of.

I thank God you're out of IFB too.

 

quote:
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Originally posted by Dr. K:
The whole IFB world is a shallow, deceptive mess led by some of the dullest knives to be found in any drawer, and its has a horribly checkered past. I am sad to see anyone defend any part of it, from Hyles on down. I thank God I am out of it.
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To re-write your "paint-job";

The WHOLE Baptist world is a shallow deceptive mess since there were SO MANY KKK's associated with it, it no more resembles the body of Christ than the Hale-bop comet clan.
puhleeze!!!

That dog won't hunt my friend.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Some of our men were asked to share their experiences from Pastors' School last night as part of our Sunday evening service. Of particular note to me, was the one man that I had invited to church about three years ago. Although he was a member of another church, his family was not active. I had known them from that church. His first Sunday, he arrived in a tank top and shorts, and was still a little 'hung-over' from his typical weekend of drinking. This past Sunday night, he walked up behind the pulpit, opened his bible, and read a verse of scripture from his Bible. At the end of his sharing, he looked at me and thanked me for inviting him three years ago. Of course, by this time I was praising God. By the time he left for Pastors' School, he was a committed Christian, but he did return with a lot more fire and determination to serve God.

 

Well, it appears that my brush may have in fact been excessively broad, and for that I do apologize.

In the hundreds of IFB churches I have known, I have in fact found one that is sound. Perhaps some of you could double that number by including yours. In my view, though, that statistical probability is small, but I will grant you that it does exist. Let us say then that what I said applies from my perspective, based on my personal experiences in the IFB world for 20+years.

I jumped into this forum to make but one point: there is not anyone who can name any of Jack Hyles personal converts, and we can all judge for ourselves what that makes him. Being the bragodocious sort he was, ask yourself if he would have refrained from naming or introducing his converts if they in fact existed; your call. (I once counted 335 references to himself in one sermon, and five to Christ.)

He had one convert, the wrong-no girl from Michigan, and he paraded her in front of the whole church as well as Pastor's School before she took her own life.

As far as post-Hyles Pastor's School, I must ask myself if a corrupt tree can produce good fruit. Some of you apparently think it can. I would respectfully disagree.

PS: "Joe's Baptist Church & Emporium" was in the context of levity. Take a deep breath . . . . you'll be fine.

 

It may very well have been in levity, but when the administration asks one for their religion, name of church, and a brief statement of testimony, they don't expect humor, they expect facts. They would like to know where you are coming from. To put the name of a fictious Baptist Church, when indeed you may not be attending any is contrary to BB rules.

As per Jack Hyles, I believe that he has been one of black spots on Fundamentalism in general, and don't believe that the IFB churches should be judged after this man. Many IFB churches renounce his methodology and even much of his doctrine, which is also unorthodox. They want to have no association with him at all. To pattern IFB churches after this man is just plain wrong.
DHK