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James 5:19-20

Nicholas25

New Member
My brothers, if any among you stays from the truth, and someone turns him back, he should know that whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his life from death and cover a multitude of sins.
(Holman Christian Standard Bible-HCSB)

If we look at this verse from an unconditional eternal security (once in grace, always in grace) perspective, how do you see these verses? Do these two verses put a dent in the OSAS doctrine, because it would be easy to see how someone could see these verses to be talking about someone who has left the truth (Jesus), and is on danger of missing heaven. Thanks.
 

Amy.G

New Member
My brothers, if any among you stays from the truth, and someone turns him back, he should know that whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his life from death and cover a multitude of sins.
(Holman Christian Standard Bible-HCSB)

If we look at this verse from an unconditional eternal security (once in grace, always in grace) perspective, how do you see these verses? Do these two verses put a dent in the OSAS doctrine, because it would be easy to see how someone could see these verses to be talking about someone who has left the truth (Jesus), and is on danger of missing heaven. Thanks.
I think this passage is referring to physical death, not spiritual. James is speaking to the brethren, meaning they are saved. The NT speaks of several cases in which believers died prematurely because of certain sins, Acts 5 and 1 Cor. 11:30 for example.
 

saturneptune

New Member
I think this passage is referring to physical death, not spiritual. James is speaking to the brethren, meaning they are saved. The NT speaks of several cases in which believers died prematurely because of certain sins, Acts 5 and 1 Cor. 11:30 for example.
I agree with you. A much harder set of verses that I had a time with for a while on this subject was Hebrews 6:4-6.
 

Steven2006

New Member
I do believe that this is talking about eternal life or death, not physical. However I don't believe that it is describing a person that was saved and then lost their salvation, but rather one who went through the motions for awhile and then turned his or her back on the truth and returned to his/her old ways. That person is as lost as he ever was, but now it has become apparent to us.
 

Zenas

Active Member
This passage is absolute proof that salvation, once obtained, can be lost. Here is the NASB rendition:
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Note that it says "save a soul from death," not save a life from death. The KJV and the RSV also render this as "save a soul from death." James is talking about someone who is bound for Hell and then is turned around and saved through the influence of another.

The passage does not refer to those who were never saved. James says, "Bretheren (fellow Christians), if any of you do err from the truth (having held to the truth at one time but now having departed from it)." He is clearly speaking of Christians who have fallen away, i.e., lost their salvation and are headed for Hell, but are rescued through the influence of Christian brothers.

The passage is straighforward and contains no ambiguity. Anyone who says it doesn't stand for the doctrine of falling from grace is engaging in wishful thinking and sophistry.
 

Amy.G

New Member
He is clearly speaking of Christians who have fallen away, i.e., lost their salvation and are headed for Hell, but are rescued through the influence of Christian brothers.

Well that sounds possible until you read Hebrews 6.

Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.


If one falls away they cannot be restored and cannot be saved from spiritual death.
 

Steven2006

New Member
Actually, the NASB correctly translates it this way:

NASB - Jam 5:19 - "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,"


This person was among them, but not saved.
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
In this passage, as in Hebrews 6, one cannot ignore the "if" introduction to a conditional clause. This whole statement is the same as saying, What if Joe comes to house, we can tell him not to stay.....If Joe comes, not that he has or will, but if. A clear supposition.

If this could happen so and so will be the results.

Cheers,

Jim
 

Zenas

Active Member
Actually, the NASB correctly translates it this way:

NASB - Jam 5:19 - "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,"


This person was among them, but not saved.
Steven, you're right. I was quoting the KJV and don't know how I got them mixed up. But I have to stand by my first statement. A person cannot stray from the truth unless he first be in the truth. These are once saved people who have strayed from the truth.
 

Zenas

Active Member
Well that sounds possible until you read Hebrews 6.

Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.


If one falls away they cannot be restored and cannot be saved from spiritual death.
"The things that are impossible with people are possible with God." Luke 18:27. Like the rich man who sought to know how to inherit eternal life, the apostate will rarely return and only with great difficulty. That is why Peter said, "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them." 2 Peter 2:21. Yet James exhorts us to try to win these people back.
 

Amy.G

New Member
"The things that are impossible with people are possible with God." Luke 18:27. Like the rich man who sought to know how to inherit eternal life, the apostate will rarely return and only with great difficulty. That is why Peter said, "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them." 2 Peter 2:21. Yet James exhorts us to try to win these people back.

Do you doubt the word of God? If they fall away (become unsaved) it is impossible to be saved again. That's what it says.
You have taken the Luke verse out of context. It has nothing to do with being "re" saved.
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
Do you doubt the word of God? If they fall away (become unsaved) it is impossible to be saved again. That's what it says.
You have taken the Luke verse out of context. It has nothing to do with being "re" saved.
"IF" is not in the Greek. This is not a IF then statement.

Heb 6 / NKJV...
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame...............


It is however in the james passage..(I Think)
 

Jarthur001

Active Member
My brothers, if any among you stays from the truth, and someone turns him back, he should know that whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his life from death and cover a multitude of sins.
(Holman Christian Standard Bible-HCSB)

If we look at this verse from an unconditional eternal security (once in grace, always in grace) perspective, how do you see these verses? Do these two verses put a dent in the OSAS doctrine, because it would be easy to see how someone could see these verses to be talking about someone who has left the truth (Jesus), and is on danger of missing heaven. Thanks.

Do you like to read? Here are a few links that will address this passage...


Sam Storms..
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/james-519-20/
In this passage James envisions a believer intervening in the life of another, wayward, believer. The result is that you will “save his soul from death” and will “cover a multitude of sins.” Does this mean there is the potential for a Christian to sin so severely that if someone doesn’t intervene to restore him/her that this person might “lose” their soul to “death,” i.e., lose their salvation? No. Several points need to be made.

First, to “stray from the truth” (v. 19) refers to any form of departure from biblical standards, whether in thought (belief) or conduct. James probably has in mind someone who is rebellious and disobedient to the truths that he has set forth in this epistle.

Second, to “turn him back” means to restore him/her to the path of obedience and truth. James envisions one believer, any believer, helping another believer get back on the track of repentance and obedience.

Third, whose “soul” is “saved” and whose “sins” are covered? Options:

· Many say that the soul saved and the sins covered are both those of the sinner who is being restored.

· Some contend that both these clauses refer not to the restored sinner but to the Christian who is the means of the restoration. In other words, the salvation of his soul and the covering of his sins are in some sense a reward to the Christian for his work of restoring a wayward brother/sister.

· Others separate the two clauses: the one whose soul is saved is the restored sinner, but the one whose sins are covered is the Christian who has been the means of his recovery.

It is unlikely James is telling us that if we will help restore a wayward brother that our soul will be saved from death. After all, we are not straying from the truth and hence are not in danger of death! Most, then, agree that the one whose soul is saved is the brother who formerly strayed. Also, since it is a “sinner” (v. 20) who has strayed and is now restored it seems only reasonable that the sins which are covered are his. It doesn’t make much sense that James would encourage the good work of restoring an erring brother in order that we might obtain forgiveness of our own sins. Therefore, the first view above is the most likely: the soul saved and the sins covered are both of the wayward/restored brother.

Fourth, the term “save” referred to in v. 20 and the “death” from which he is delivered must be identified. Just a few verses earlier in 5:15 James used the term “save” to describe physical restoration from illness. The “death” here, therefore, is most likely physical death, not spiritual death. Again, in vv. 14-15 it is deliverance from or the prevention of a premature physical death that is in view. See also 5:12. Thus, James is here encouraging us to be diligent to restore to repentance any brother or sister who has strayed from the truth. In doing so, we will have been instrumental in delivering or saving them from premature physical death (under the discipline of the Lord; cf. 1 Cor. 11:30-32; Acts 5). There is nothing in this passage that might lead us to believe a true Christian could lose his or her salvation.
OTHERS>>>

John Mac..
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/59-34

Geoff Thomas...
http://www.alfredplacechurch.org.uk/Sermons/james27.htm
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
On Hebrews 6:4-6

Originally Posted by saturneptune
.......A much harder set of verses that I had a time with for a while on this subject was Hebrews 6:4-6.

“The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.” [C. Hodge]

The letter to the Hebrews was written to counteract the very first heresy of the early Church, which was also the greatest temptation to the Jewish Christians; which was to return to the precepts of Judaism and the law of the Old Covenant. They were castigated and ostracized from the Jewish economy by family, friends, and countrymen for following Christ and leaving the Mosaic Covenant. It was a natural thing to miss those 'cucumbers and leeks' and 'turn back in their hearts to Egypt'; maybe life could go back to the way it used to be if they only just returned to that bondage that Christ had delivered them from.

To return to this apostate ecclesiastical system that had just recently unjustly killed their Lord was to cast their lot with that very generation [Lu 17:25], and to truly 'tread under foot the Son of God', and 'count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing', and to 'do despite to the Spirit of grace' [Heb 10:29]. There was to be no repentance granted for such an act, only 'a certain fearful expectation of judgment' [Heb 10:27], which indeed came on that very generation [Acts 2:40; Lu 21:22,32]. It was 'impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame' [Heb 6:6].

It is my opinion that the 'falling away' of this passage corresponds to the blasphemy of Mt 12:31, and could only be committed by those of 'that generation'.

And..........just because they were not granted repentance in this time world does not mean they were to spend eternity burning in hell; like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, I happen to think they went to heaven 'spanked'.
 
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Jarthur001

Active Member
“The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.” [C. Hodge]

The letter to the Hebrews was written to counteract the very first heresy of the early Church, which was also the greatest temptation to the Jewish Christians; which was to return to the precepts of Judaism and the law of the Old Covenant. They were castigated and ostracized from the Jewish economy by family, friends, and countrymen for following Christ and leaving the Mosaic Covenant. It was a natural thing to miss those 'cucumbers and leeks' and 'turn back in their hearts to Egypt'; maybe life could go back to the way it used to be if they only just returned to that bondage that Christ had delivered them from.

To return to this apostate ecclesiastical system that had just recently unjustly killed their Lord was to cast their lot with that very generation [Lu 17:25], and to truly 'tread under foot the Son of God', and 'count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing', and to 'do despite to the Spirit of grace' [Heb 10:29]. There was to be no repentance granted for such an act, only 'a certain fearful expectation of judgment' [Heb 10:27], which indeed came on that very generation [Acts 2:40; Lu 21:22,32]. It was 'impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame' [Heb 6:6].

It is my opinion that the 'falling away' of this passage corresponds to the blasphemy of Mt 12:31, and could only be committed by those of 'that generation'.

And..........just because they were not granted repentance in this time world does not mean they were to spend eternity burning in hell; like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, I happen to think they went to heaven 'spanked'.

I would disagree. :)

It is true that we must understand what "falling away" means. But also what does "restore to repentance" mean? Some key points (bold) I want to point out in the text to help us.

Read verse 7-12 because in it you will find the meaning of the verses above

1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,



2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.



3And this we will do if God permits.



4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,



5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,



6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.



7For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.



8But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed,and its end is to be burned.


9Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation.



10For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.



11And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end,



12so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
What ya think? :)
 
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