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James disproves Free Will.

1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
“For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.” James 3:7–12 (KJV 1900)
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I don’t see the connection between warning Christians to be careful with what they say and free will.

Peace to you
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
@1689Dave do you really think there is nothing of freedom of the will? The will is absolutely free to do whatever is according to its nature. We will always be free to choose what we desire. That does not contradict Scripture.

The question is what do we desire? Scripture tells us that our wills desire anything but God in our fallen state. So we do have freedom of will, but our wills do not want God.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
I don’t see the connection between warning Christians to be careful with what they say and free will.

Peace to you
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James says we cannot control our tongues = no free will. Jesus says from out of the heart we speak = we cannot control our thoughts and impulses.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
“For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.” James 3:7–12 (KJV 1900)
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There isn't anything in James that disproves freewill.
MB
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
“For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.” James 3:7–12 (KJV 1900)
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#2
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
James says we cannot control our tongues = no free will. Jesus says from out of the heart we speak = we cannot control our thoughts and impulses.
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Well, "Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established." -- Proverbs 16:3.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
“For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.” James 3:7–12 (KJV 1900)
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James doesn't disprove it Calvinist doctrine leads you to believe it does.
 
rockytopva

rockytopva

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I sense not the love of God in these Calvinistic threads. To so many these days I have got to remind folks that the anointing of God and unction of the Holy Spirit is not human ego! And to quote some more of James....

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. - James 3
 
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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Do you sin in speech? = no free will.
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No control over the wicked flesh...

" For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." ( Romans 7:14-25 ).

" For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." ( Galatians 5:17 ).

Believers are at war with their flesh, Dave.
Unbelievers are not.

In each case the will is free to do that which the nature wants to do.
In someone who is born again, the new nature frees the will to want to obey the Lord.
In someone who is dead in trespasses and sins, the old nature is free to disobey the Lord.

In the believer, the flesh goes one way, while the spirit desires the other.
In the unbeliever, the flesh goes one way, and the spirit follows after it, hook, line and sinker...at least in many cases.

His many blessings be upon you, sir.
 
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Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
rockytopva said:
I sense not the love of God in these Calvinistic threads. To so many these days I have got to remind folks that the anointing of God and unction of the Holy Spirit is not human ego! And to quote some more of James....
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I agree, sir.
Making peace is a wise thing, and so is lovingly correcting those who err in doctrine:

" Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." ( James 5:19-20 ).


May God bless you greatly.
 
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