Jeremiah 29:11

[HankD]

Why not just thoughts of peace? Why does it have to be about prosperity and welfare? Why not take comfort in that God has thoughts of peace toward you and I?

But what if I want to have a pity party?

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.


HankD

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by TC:
Why do you continue to pull the passage out of context and apply it to yourself

But I am not. If you'll stop using the NIV and pick up the KJB you see that the NIV is wrong and the KJB is correct. There are 2 thoughts here, let me show you...

In the KJB, Jeremiah 29:11, Jeremiah is writing to the elders, priets, prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon who were captive.(vs.1) This letter is being carried by the hand of Elasah the son of Shaphan, and Gemariah the son of Hilkiah.(vs.3)

The letter:
[4]Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
[5] Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
[6] Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished.
[7] And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.

Now before we continue, God has just told these people to go out and basically be prosperous, start a new. Then things change in verse 8, look and see

[8] For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
[9] For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.

In verses 7, 8, and 9, the Lord warns the people to not listen to the prophets and the diviners among them, because they are deceivers and prophesy falsely. It is really untellin' what they said about God.

Now verse 11 makes since.

[11] For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

God reassures them that he has thoughts of peace and not evil toward them. Probably the reason he said this is because of those false prophets. They may have told them, that God does not care for them, especially since they were captives. Who knows, but something happen for God to say this.

So there you have it in context. There are two thoughts here, not just one of prosperity.


Now, why do I continue to apply it to myself? Because there are false prophets amoung us who proclaim things in God's name, but God does not know them. Some say that God does not like you or even love you. This is simply not true. The letter by Jeremiah from God applies to us today just as it did back then. God has thoughts of peace toward me. Thank God for that.

God bless,
RR

 

[robycop3]

RR:I'll tell you why, the devil. The devil has changed the bible so much that it completely takes away from what God is saying.

Better think again...Do ya REALLY believe God retired in 1611 and no longer protects and provides His word in TODAY'S languages and language styles? Do ya REALLY believe He tossed the AV into KJ's lap & said, "There it is...Take it or leave it"?

OR...has the devil invented such false doctrines as the KJVO myth to cause strife and division? Remember, it was started by a SDA official, so it didn't come from GOD. Think JESUS is pleased with those who attack His word with a doctrine not found in His word, and started by a cult official?

.........THINK...............

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Better think again...Do ya REALLY believe God retired in 1611 and no longer protects and provides His word in TODAY'S languages and language styles?

God does not retire, thank goodness. His word was perfectly preserved for us in 1611. Why another translation, because of the style? There are hundreds if not thousands of styles around. Styles change ever year, does God word need to change ever year? It sure seems like it. God does not change, he is the same today and forever.

Do ya REALLY believe He tossed the AV into KJ's lap & said, "There it is...Take it or leave it"?

No, of course not. It was in the hands of 56 men I believe.

OR...has the devil invented such false doctrines as the KJVO myth to cause strife and division?

Who is causing strife and division? We believe God's word is inspired and preserved in one book. You however do not. There is a church for every bible out there. If the KJB was the final authority(as it once was) in the churches today, we would not be having this strife and division. What has happen is people did not and do not like the way the KJB puts their sin on the table. They like something water down so it doesn't make them look so bad.

Remember, it was started by a SDA official, so it didn't come from GOD.

I'm not familiar with this SDA official, who is it, and what is SDA?

Think JESUS is pleased with those who attack His word with a doctrine not found in His word, and started by a cult official?

.........THINK...............

No, I think JESUS is not pleased with those folks who do not believe Psalm 12:6,7. You speak about the doctrine not found in His word, is your doctrine found there? If so, please show me.

God bless,
RR

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by RaptureReady:
God does not retire, thank goodness. His word was perfectly preserved for us in 1611.

So did God retire from providentially providing His Word to His people in 1611 or not? You are trying to play both sides against the middle on this question.

BTW, if God's Word was perfectly preserved in 1611, why don't you use that revision of the KJV? What did the poor souls in 1605 use?

Why another translation, because of the style?

Because English is a living, changing language.

Styles change ever year, does God word need to change ever year? It sure seems like it. God does not change, he is the same today and forever.

God wills that man have His Word in the language we understand. God doesn't change but man's languages do.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Do ya REALLY believe He tossed the AV into KJ's lap & said, "There it is...Take it or leave it"?

No, of course not. It was in the hands of 56 men I believe.</font>[/QUOTE] Yes! Men! Fallible men. Men who neither claimed nor were inspired in their word choices. Men who adopted much of their phrasing from earlier Bibles including the RCC's Douhy-Rheims.

Men who belonged to a church that systematically attempted to stamp out Baptists and other dissenters from the Anglican Catholic state church. Men who had significant doctrinal differences with what a Baptist believes.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />OR...has the devil invented such false doctrines as the KJVO myth to cause strife and division?

Who is causing strife and division? We believe God's word is inspired and preserved in one book. You however do not.</font>[/QUOTE] And this is exactly how YOU cause the strife and division. You cannot be satisfied with your preference. You feel compelled to foist it on everyone else and assert that it is somehow God's choice.

If the KJB was the final authority(as it once was) in the churches today, we would not be having this strife and division.

If the Geneva Bible were still the final authority, as it once was, in the churches today, we would not be having this strife and division.

If KJV churches would adopt the NKJV as their standard text, as they should since it uses a form of English that the common man of today understands, we would not be having this strife and division.

If the US had a state church that would impose a single version on all churches, as the Church of England did with the "Authorized Version" in the 1630's upon threat of imprisonment, we would not be having this strife and division.

What has happen is people did not and do not like the way the KJB puts their sin on the table.

Oh. Now I see. People like it better when the NASB or NKJV condemn adultery, lying, pride, etc.

They like something water down so it doesn't make them look so bad.

Now the rubber finally meets the road.

Show us where you think sin has been watered down in a faithful translation of the Bible like the NASB or NKJV.

I'm not familiar with this SDA official, who is it, and what is SDA?

Ben Wilkinson. Seventh Day Adventist.

No, I think JESUS is not pleased with those folks who do not believe Psalm 12:6,7.

We believe it. And reject those who would any belief that adds to scripture by claiming that this passage proves that only the KJV is acceptable.

 

[Pastor Larry]

If the KJB was the final authority(as it once was) in the churches today, we would not be having this strife and division.

You are right, because if the KJV was the final authority, no one would be preaching the nonsense of KJVO. Why don't you guys recognize that the KJV does not teach this doctrine? You are creating strife and division and harming teh faith of people in God's word because of a man made doctrine.

 

[RaptureReady]

What man made doctrine? We believe God inspired and preserved his word in the KJB. If my understanding is correct this was the believe of the body of believers until Westcott and Hort came along. The Bible says to not add or take away from God's word. The only man made doctrine is W/H man made, doctrine of, is the Bible really God's word.

Again, this is all the devils work. This work has been in full production since the devil tempted Eve in the garden. He has since then, some 6,000 years to learn what the weakiness of man are and one of those is, "yea hath God said."

God bless,
RR

 

[AVL1984]

Prove it's the "Devil's Work", RR. KJVOism is a false doctrine, will always be a false doctrine, and because of it's divisive nature could be called the Devils Work.

 

[natters]

Originally posted by RaptureReady:
What man made doctrine? We believe God inspired and preserved his word in the KJB. If my understanding is correct this was the believe of the body of believers until Westcott and Hort came along.

WRONG. People believed the KJV was the word of God, sure - but we're talking about the false extra-biblical man-made doctrine that only the KJV is the word of God.

The only man made doctrine is W/H man made, doctrine of, is the Bible really God's word.

WRONG. W/H asserted no doctrines. W/H appear in no doctrinal statements of any church I have ever heard of.

Again, this is all the devils work.

WRONG. Were the KJV translators listening to "Yea, hath God said" when they made their translation instead of simply using the Bibles they already had?

 

[RaptureReady]

Natters, if one Bible says this and the other says that, one is right and one is wrong. Therefore the one that is wrong is not God's word. Plain and simple.

God bless,
RR

 

[natters]

if one Bible says this and the other says that, one is right and one is wrong. Therefore the one that is wrong is not God's word. Plain and simple.

WRONG. The third option is that they both say the same thing but you personally misunderstand.

When one gospel says one thing and another gospel says another, is one right and one wrong, the wrong one being "not God's word". No. Plain and simple.

 

[RaptureReady]

Can you truly not see that the passage in Jeremiah 29 is talking about two different things? Swallow your pride and accept that the NIV is wrong here.

God bless,
RR

 

[natters]

RR, how is the NIV wrong? Contextually, it fits wonderfully. The NIV is right, the KJV is right. Your personal understanding is the one that is wrong.

 

[RaptureReady]

They both cannot be right. The KJB is talking about God's thoughts toward us. The NIV is talking about God prospering us.

Webster says:

Thought = 1 : to form or have in the mind
2 : to have as an intention

Prosper = 1 : to succeed in an enterprise or
activity; especially : to achieve
economic success
2 : to become strong and flourishing


Two totally different meanings. One is right and one is wrong. Which is it? I believe the KJB. You believe both are correct, more so the NIV. One of us will be judged for spreading the wrong teaching.

God bless,
RR

 

[Scott J]

Why are you comparing "thought" to "prosper"?

The comparison is between the phrases: "plans to prosper" and "thoughts of peace".

Peace and prosperity often go together as a blessing. The two translations together probably provide a more comprehensive understanding of what God intended in Hebrew than either does alone.

This is precisely why the KJV translators favored a variety of translations.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by RaptureReady:
What man made doctrine? We believe God inspired and preserved his word in the KJB.

You answered your own question. The KJV doesn't teach that the KJV alone is the inspired, preserved Word of God. It doesn't teach that God "inspired... His Word in the KJB". The KJV, like all other versions and copies, derives its inspiration and authority from the originals- absent the originals, the evidence for the originals.

If my understanding is correct this was the believe of the body of believers until Westcott and Hort came along.

Once again, the problem is with your understanding. In the 250 or so years between 1611 and WH, you will not find any of the great Christians espousing your belief about the KJV. As late as the end of the 1600's, Baptists and Puritans were still clinging to their Geneva Bibles against the encroachment of the Anglican Bible. They might have even considered the KJV as a symbol of the persecution they faced at the hands of the Church of England.

Jonathan Edwards used the KJV but he also seemed to be fond of using phrases and paraphrasing. Wesley knew the biblical languages and produced his own translation to correct what he saw as weaknesses in the KJV.

The Bible says to not add or take away from God's word. The only man made doctrine is W/H man made, doctrine of, is the Bible really God's word.

The Bible does not say that the KJV is the only acceptable English version... why are you adding to the Bible?

Again, this is all the devils work.

Yes. Any time someone adds a teaching to the Bible and creates division over it... the devil is at work.

This work has been in full production since the devil tempted Eve in the garden. He has since then, some 6,000 years to learn what the weakiness of man are and one of those is, "yea hath God said."

Right. And that is what KJVO's repeatedly say when they condemn other faithful versions of the Bible.

 

[natters]

RaptureReady said "They both cannot be right. The KJB is talking about God's thoughts toward us. The NIV is talking about God prospering us."

WRONG. They are talking about God's thoughts towards, and prospering, Israel when they were in the Babylonian captivity.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by RaptureReady:
What man made doctrine? We believe God inspired and preserved his word in the KJB.

Yes, I realize you believe that, and I believe it too. But the point is that the KJV does not teach that. You believe something more than your KJV final authority teaches. That means that the KJV is not your final authority. If it were, you would not teach KJVOnylism.

If my understanding is correct this was the believe of the body of believers until Westcott and Hort came along.

Your understanding is incorrect.

The Bible says to not add or take away from God's word. The only man made doctrine is W/H man made, doctrine of, is the Bible really God's word.

Again, simply false. WH didn't make any doctrine at all. The Bible says not to add or take away to be sure, so by your usage of that doctrine, the KJV is ruled out as the word of God since it has added to God's word in numerous places.

Again, this is all the devils work.

He certainly has succeeded in sowing great confusion in teh body of Christ because of the false teaching of KJVOnlyism. Unfortunately, there are some so undiscerning that they have not yet understood that KJVOnlyism is not the truth of God.

God bless,

He will not bless your false doctrine. He may work his glorious salvation in spite of it, but it will not be because of it. God never condones false teaching, and KJVOnlyism is not the exception.

 

[HankD]

We believe God inspired and preserved his word in the KJB. If my understanding is correct this was the believe of the body of believers until Westcott and Hort came along.

No it isn't. John Burgon was in the Southern Convocation of the Church of England from which the AV translation committee directed Wescott and Hort to do their work with instructions as John Burgon says on page 3 of his book The Revision Revised, that "the removal of plain and clear errors" in the text of the Authorised Version "were alone to be contemplated".

In other words John Burgon believed the AV contained errors and needed revision

His complaint was not that Wescott and Hort believed that the AV needed revision and correction but that the two mss Aleph and B were used by W&H as models of "the best manuscripts" from which to make those corrections.

The AV or any translation can only be said to be inspired by derivation from the original language texts and in accord with the faithfulness of the translation to those original language texts.

The KJV tanslators were not prophets or apostles or to use their own words they were not "apostolic men" who knew the Lord in the flesh here on earth so as to be authorised to produce the God-breathed Scriptures.

Those original language texts called the Traditional Texts of the Old and New Testaments are the preserved text of the inspired originals.

The Old Itala, the Peshitto, the Latin Vulgate, and the KJV are translations and have derived but not intrinsic inspiration.

HankD

 

[rsr]

Interesting that the KJV translators picked the same word in this case as the Douay translators ...