Jerry Falwell on the Crucifixion

Hi,C4K ----

Biblical evidence does NOT point to a Friday Crucifixion.

Jerry Falwell knows what most Christians do not know --- Jesus died late Wednesday afternoon, before sunset --- and rose late Saturday afternoon, before sunset. </font>[/QUOTE]How do you count?
I get FOUR days "in the heart of the earth" - i.e., in the state of death, if beginning Wednesday afternoon.
Then most of the W-Crucifixion theorists still insist on a fifth day - Sunday - for the resurrection!
I know you reckon "in the grave" - but that isn't the meaning of Jona's experience of like being in the heart of the earth. "In the heart of the earth" meant "the pangs of death". And those began when Jesus declared: "My hour has come!"
In view of all this CONFUSION one starts to get an idea of why the importance of the SCRIPTURAL chronology!

 

You say this for both of two reasons:
One, you through ignorance have never attempted to understand the importance;
two, you through FEAR have never attempted to understand the importance.
Th importance of it may be described with one word: "your order" - Col.2:5 - which is no less than the very 'worship' of Christ's Body the Church.

 

Spot on! and Well said!
Question is, do you yourself believe it?

 

Timing is of such importance the Church acts in accordance to the (asserted) timing of Jesus' resurrection in its perpetual following after HIM, BECOMING the Church in CONGREGATION of worship and celebration of her salvation. The fact of the resurrection IS, THE NEW CREATION, and it exists two dimentionally: Bodily in time and in space, and spiritually in time and in space.
In the New Testament the Sabbath is Day of Worship, therefore, "the Lord's Day".

 

I didn't realise that this was going to be a sabbatarian thread. I thought the signicance was the crucifixion statement. </font>[/QUOTE]Is the Sabbath's inescapable involvement so offensive to you?

 

1) 6 pm is not the cut-off time for new days beginning --- sunset is.


2) Jesus' DEAD BODY was taken down BEFORE sunset, BEFORE the next day began. Therefore, Jesus would rise from the dead BEFORE Saturday was over. </font>[/QUOTE]My best friend wopik,
I love you so! I mean it! Why is it we must always clash? Jesus' DEAD BODY was NOT taken down BEFORE sunset, NOT BEFORE the next day began. In any case, Jesus would rise from the dead BEFORE Saturday was over. Read Mark 15:42 and Mt.27:57 - two verses CHANGED in new translation in order to evade the predicament!

 

If Luke 24 is correct (and I believe it is) that Sunday during the day time IS the "THIRD day" since the crucifixion - then the crucifixion can not have been before Friday.

IMHO.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]I have answered you on this one in another thread. Sunday, day three since, Saturday day two since, friday the first day since ... "SINCE" what? "Since" Jesus crucifixion and death - full stop.
When did the Israelites return to earth (by burning) the remains of the Passover lamb? Only the next day - the second day of the Passover!

 

Brother. those who disagree with you don't necessarily fear the truth.

If you choose to worship the Lord on Saturday, amen - praise the Lord you are worshipping Him. </font>[/QUOTE]Below the sweetness such acrimony! Rather than praise the Lord, ask of Him.

 

My friend from South Africa, you are indeed most magnanimous in your display of hyperbole and backbush rhetoric. You presume that no one but you have studied the scripture and can ever understand its truth. I gave my reasons in the quote from A.T. Robertson, Ma, DD, LittD, professor of New Testament and Greek, writer of the Life of Christ and a notable Baptist. I should think he has a little more weight than you have thus far demonstrated. I shall believe him and his viewpoint. Have you read his harmony of the gospels? Have you read anyone's harmony of the gospels?

Many of us have years of study and we are nt ignorant of scripture, as you presume. End of argument from my point of view. I shall continue to regard Sunday, the first day of the week, and the day our blessed Lord rose from the tomb, and the day we honor our Lord with worship and the gathering of the saints. The scripture is plain to me.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Brother. those who disagree with you don't necessarily fear the truth.

If you choose to worship the Lord on Saturday, amen - praise the Lord you are worshipping Him. </font>[/QUOTE]Below the sweetness such acrimony! Rather than praise the Lord, ask of Him. </font>[/QUOTE]I fail to understand the contempt and haughtiness with which you view those who have also studied and come to a different conclusion.

I say again - "If you choose to worship the Lord on Saturday, amen - praise the Lord you are worshipping Him" without the acrimony of which you so freely accuse me.

 

Robertson in his Harmoy renders opse sabbatohn, ON THE SABBTH LATE or words to the effect - I havn't now got the time to goe fetch them exactly. An he in his Grammer gives the best of explanations, and eventually surrenders grammer as the reason for believing "after the Sabbath".
And Calvin argued Jesus was resurrected on the Sabbath, and in the very event of His resurrection -accordin to Calvin - abolished the Sabbath.

 

James Bailey, 19th cent.?
QB: The Bible Union renders the term by“late in.” Meyer gives, “Late upon the Sabbath;” Lange, “But about the end;” Robinson, in Lexicon of Greek Testament, gives, “At the end of,” “at the close of,” “late,’ “late evening,” “at the end of the Sabbath;” DeWette and others, “After the Sabbath had ended;” Bloomfield, “After the Sabbath.” While seeming to differ, critics substantially agree, as some begin where the others end.

Dr. Schaff, in a foot note on Lange, says: “The usual translation of opse (sero) Sabbatown is, toward the end of the Sabbath, or late in the Sabbath, meaning the closing period, near the end, but still during the Sabbath.or late in the day. The Vulgate, vesperi sabbati; Beza, extremo sabbato; Tyndale, the sabbath day at even; Coverdale, upon the evening of the sabbath holy day; Cranmer, Genevan and Bishops versions, in the latter end of the sabbath day.”

The Greek phrase translated “As it began to dawn” occurs but twice in the New Testament. In Luke 23: 54, it is rendered, “drew on” in the sense as given by Robinson, “to begin.” Of Matt. 28:1, he says, “ Trop, of the Jewish day beginning at sunset.” Casauhon, an eminent critic and theologian at Geneva. in the sixteenth century, says the word is used properly of the first appearing of the heavenly bodies. This is in harmony with a Jewish custom to begin the day with the first appearing of the stars. The “drew on” of Luke, and the “beginning to dawn” (of the stars), would make the meaning of Matthew late in the Sabbath, and not the dawning of sunlight. This would also be in agreement with the Scriptural method of beginning the day at or near sunset.QE
Marshall: "Late of sabbath's";
Check Lightfoot and Coleridge!
Revised Version: "Now late on the Sabbath Day".
AT RObertson, 'Grammar' - see www.biblestudents.co.za, 'Prof. Bacchiocchi refuses to hear these questions'.

I say we don't even need a direct reference to Jesus' resurrection on the Sabbath Day to know it was on the Sabbath Day - all the Scriptures from the nature of the Sabbath in them, show it would and should have been "In Sabbath's-time"!

 

ETCETERA!

 

Robertson's Word Pictures ("Harmony"?) of the New Testament: Quote Part
Now late on the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (opse de sabbatwn, th epipwskoush eiί mian sabbatwn). This careful chronological statement according to Jewish days clearly means that before the sabbath was over, that is before six P.M., this visit by the women was made "to see the sepulchre" (qeorhsai ton tapon). Part QE

The 1599 Geneva Study Bible, Mt.28:1,"In 1 the a end of the sabbath, as it b began to dawn toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

 

I agree with both comments. What day of the week Jesus died is trivial. What is important is that Jesus rose. I tend to adhere to the traditional burial on Friday/empty tomb on Sunday observance, but it is strictly my own pov. The one thing Scripture is clear on is that the empty tomb was discovered on the morning of the first day of the week (which would to us be Sunday).

 

I agree with both comments. What day of the week Jesus died is trivial. What is important is that Jesus rose. I tend to adhere to the traditional burial on Friday/empty tomb on Sunday observance, but it is strictly my own pov. The one thing Scripture is clear on is that the empty tomb was discovered on the morning of the first day of the week (which would to us be Sunday). </font>[/QUOTE]No sure, Johnv, clean and innocent and may God help me never to judge you for what you hold fast to.
Nevertheless, God has a way of doing things, and one of His ways is to make important an oppotunity for the worship of Him BY HIS CHILDREN. It has always been like that, and it has always been just the one day, "God thus concerning spoke", and that Day was "the Sabbath Day of the LORD your God", or, in NT terminology, "the Lord's Day". ONLY THAT, explains the importance the matter has FOR GOD, and then, "for the PEOPLE of God". Hb.4:9 uses the word 'apoleipetai' - "stays important", or, "remains valid".
The importance of God's Sabbath Day derives from the Lord of the Sabbath, 1, and 2, the People of the Sabbath.
I have but one concern - where is it? In the SDA-Church? I don't think so! Then where SHOULD it be? In the Reformed, Protestant Churches, in the General Assembly of Believers, in the Church Universal! "He that despised Moses' Law, died without mercy ... of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy who ... hath ... counted (unholy) the blood of the covenant ..." - whereby the New Testament Sabbath - "... was sanctified"?
Is mine a preposterous use of Hb.10:29 with reference to the Sabbath seeing the NT Sabbath is sanctified by only the blood of Jesus' mercy?

 

ONLY THAT, its NAME, explains the importance the DAY has FOR GOD, and then, "for the PEOPLE of God".

 

Scripture is VERY CLEAR that the tomb was found empty on the morning of the first day. Kindly refrain from hijacking this thread into yet another one of your dead horse beatings.

 

Quoting Johnv
Scripture is VERY CLEAR that the tomb was found empty on the morning of the first day. Kindly refrain from hijacking this thread into yet another one of your dead horse beatings. [QE]

Have I ever denied? Scripture is VERY CLEAR that the tomb was found empty on the morning of the first day, can't YOU see it? Scripture is VERY CLEAR that Jesus was raised before the morning of the first day. Clear?
Then why call it MY dead horse? My faith is built upon the LIVING TRUTH of CHRIST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD - as the Scriptures promised and as the Scrtiptures confirmed - "in the Sabbath's fulness of day the First Day of the week approaching ..."
Follow the threat on Falwell on the Crucifixion.

 

Jim 1999,
And now?