Jerry Walls Refuting Calvinistic Soteriology

[MennoSota]

Psalm 95:7-11, "For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest"

"qashah", "be hard, severe, fierce, struggle against"

Hebrews 3:8, "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness"

"σκληρύνω", "to be hardened, i. e. become obstinate or stubborn"

Who is the Psalmist and the writer of Hebrews speaking to?

 

[Yeshua1]

like God "ordaining our sinful actions"?

God does not tempt nor cause us to sin, as God is light, and in Him no darkness, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not Arminian! You forgot to mention John and Charles Wesley, who had probably the greatest impact on Christianity around the world, after the Apostle Paul!

That does not mean that they were biblical sound in their doctrines though! Saved, but not sound!

 

[AndyMartin]

That does not mean that they were biblical sound in their doctrines though! Saved, but not sound!

more so than Calvin!

 

[AndyMartin]

God does not tempt nor cause us to sin, as God is light, and in Him no darkness, correct?

Check out my post on what Wayne Grudem, a Calvinist has said on God ordaining sin.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Who is the Psalmist and the writer of Hebrews speaking to?

Shhhhhhh!!!! That requires exegesis.

 

[AndyMartin]

Really? You're plucking one verse and making a claim?

All humans are stiff necked, uncircumcised in the heart and ears, and always resist the Holy Spirit. It is the nature of our rebellion. Thus, there is nothing that merits God's grace being given to us via adoption.
No Calvinist ever says the human heart doesn't fight against God. That is not what irresistible grace means. It means that those whom God chooses, by His Sovereign election, will not be able to resist God's call and choice. They will eventually be saved...against their own will. This is the way that all humans who come to faith act. If you are saved, it happened against your own rebellious will. God broke you and hounded you until you could no longer resist. Look at Paul as the shining example of God capturing and breaking down his resistance.

Why do you imagine yourself as better than you are? Why do you imagine that you are not a rebel at heart? Why do you imagine that you are capable of resisting the will of God? Are you stronger than God? Is your will greater than God's will?

Andy, you have a great dilemma on your hands.

You say, "They will eventually be saved...against their own will". So if their being saved is "against their own will", this must mean that they were "not willing" in themselves, but God FORCED their will!

Such is the complete nonsense of Calvinism!

 

[MennoSota]

You say, "They will eventually be saved...against their own will". So if their being saved is "against their own will", this must mean that they were "not willing" in themselves, but God FORCED their will!

Such is the complete nonsense of Calvinism!

You must, therefore call God's word complete non-sense.

What does Romans 3:9-20 say?

9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.” “The poison of vipers is on their lips.” 14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Andy, you are rejecting God's word and replacing it with your own. You should be horrified by your actions.

 

[AndyMartin]

You must, therefore call God's word complete non-sense.

What does Romans 3:9-20 say?

9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.” “The poison of vipers is on their lips.” 14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Andy, you are rejecting God's word and replacing it with your own. You should be horrified by your actions.

I am convinced that Calvinism is a deep spiritual bondage that needs deliverance

 

[MennoSota]

I am convinced that Calvinism is a deep spiritual bondage that needs deliverance

Indeed, you have convinced yourself, despite the vast overwhelming scripture passages that prove you wrong. You have become so internally bitter and outraged that you don't see that you are a Pharisee who misses God's grace.

I note that you didn't even respond to Romans 3, but instead you toss it away with a sweeping gesture. That's sad.

 

[AndyMartin]

Indeed, you have convinced yourself, despite the vast overwhelming scripture passages that prove you wrong. You have become so internally bitter and outraged that you don't see that you are a Pharisee who misses God's grace.

I note that you didn't even respond to Romans 3, but instead you toss it away with a sweeping gesture. That's sad.

I am angry and bitter at no one! But do seriously think that this whole Calvinistic thing is a red-herring from the enemy, as it causes divisions and unbiblical is many of its teachings. Of course I would not expect you to see this, as you are a convinced Calvinist!

 

[MennoSota]

I am angry and bitter at no one! But do seriously think that this whole Calvinistic thing is a red-herring from the enemy, as it causes divisions and unbiblical is many of its teachings. Of course I would not expect you to see this, as you are a convinced Calvinist!

The enemy is inside you, Andy. The scriptures are filled with God choosing from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation.

You fight the word of God because your own selfish will wants to call the shots and rule in your heart. You just want God to be an advisor rather than be your Sovereign King who rules you and directs your coming and going. You imagine that such a King will take away your freedom, yet you don't realize that you are never free. You are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. In either case your status (and my status) is slave. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[tyndale1946]

The enemy is inside you, Andy. The scriptures are filled with God choosing from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation.

You fight the word of God because your own selfish will wants to call the shots and rule in your heart. You just want God to be an advisor rather than be your Sovereign King who rules you and directs your coming and going. You imagine that such a King will take away your freedom, yet you don't realize that you are never free. You are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. In either case your status (and my status) is slave. Nothing more and nothing less.

Andy starts another thread?... Brother Glen

 

[SovereignGrace]

The enemy is inside you, Andy. The scriptures are filled with God choosing from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation.

You fight the word of God because your own selfish will wants to call the shots and rule in your heart. You just want God to be an advisor rather than be your Sovereign King who rules you and directs your coming and going. You imagine that such a King will take away your freedom, yet you don't realize that you are never free. You are either a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. In either case your status (and my status) is slave. Nothing more and nothing less.

His last 3 posts? ZERO scriptures cited.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Well, this shows that we all have our blind-spots. At least Wesley did not condone the murder of someone whom he disagreed with, as Calvin did! Nor teach the great heresy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ as Calvin's hero, Augustine did, that Jesus Christ paid the "ransom" to the devil, which is nothing short of BLASPHEMY! Its interesting that the system of Calvinism comes from this guy, says a lot! I praise the Lord that the "reformed" churches are on the decline, as they preach a gospel that is not found in the Bible

What reformed churches are on the decline? Don't be bashful, name'm.

Around here?

A FWB is getting ready for their 3rd pastor in ~ 3 years.
Another FWB church had an asst-pastor step down due to having an affair. I know this to be true...He's a co-worker.
The Separate Baptist Church(free will believing) I have a monthly appt at has less than 15 at pretty much EVERY meeting. My last sermon I preached to 6 ppl. The week before they had 6 there.
My home church has 25-35 weekly and that church is not Calvinistic.
Another free will believing church about 1 minute from my house had a pastor who fleeced them.

But reformed churches are the struggling ones.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Well, this shows that we all have our blind-spots. At least Wesley did not condone the murder of someone whom he disagreed with, as Calvin did! Nor teach the great heresy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ as Calvin's hero, Augustine did, that Jesus Christ paid the "ransom" to the devil, which is nothing short of BLASPHEMY! Its interesting that the system of Calvinism comes from this guy, says a lot! I praise the Lord that the "reformed" churches are on the decline, as they preach a gospel that is not found in the Bible

What false gospel?

The gospel of justification by faith w/o works that we aver?

Now, I know very little about Calvin and Augustine, as I have read very little of their works. Now, don't come at me with this talking about them, seeing they have gone to receive their reward upon the return of the Christ.

Now, we can see that we are justified by faith w/o works as the bible avows in Romans 3:28, 5:1, Galatians 2:16, 3:8, 3:24, just to name a few. Now, we can also read He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.[Romans 4:25] If the Christ rose from the dead for everyone as your side avers, then everyone is justified, and everyone justified is declared righteous before God and those who stand before God who have been declared righteous are saved. To proclaim an universal redemption, which the death, burial and resurrection accomplished(not universal in its scope, but for His ppl, His sheep, His elect), means a universal salvation.

But He, the Christ, rose for our, I.E. the believers, justification.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What reformed churches are on the decline? Don't be bashful, name'm.

Around here?

A FWB is getting ready for their 3rd pastor in ~ 3 years.
Another FWB church had an asst-pastor step down due to having an affair. I know this to be true...He's a co-worker.
The Separate Baptist Church(free will believing) I have a monthly appt at has less than 15 at pretty much EVERY meeting. My last sermon I preached to 6 ppl. The week before they had 6 there.
My home church has 25-35 weekly and that church is not Calvinistic.
Another free will believing church about 1 minute from my house had a pastor who fleeced them.

But reformed churches are the struggling ones.

I know of 4 or 5 churches, that believe in free will, who have closed their doors in the last 2-3 years.

But reformed churches are the ones dying?

 

[AndyMartin]

What false gospel?

The gospel of justification by faith w/o works that we aver?

Now, I know very little about Calvin and Augustine, as I have read very little of their works. Now, don't come at me with this talking about them, seeing they have gone to receive their reward upon the return of the Christ.

Now, we can see that we are justified by faith w/o works as the bible avows in Romans 3:28, 5:1, Galatians 2:16, 3:8, 3:24, just to name a few. Now, we can also read He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.[Romans 4:25] If the Christ rose from the dead for everyone as your side avers, then everyone is justified, and everyone justified is declared righteous before God and those who stand before God who have been declared righteous are saved. To proclaim an universal redemption, which the death, burial and resurrection accomplished(not universal in its scope, but for His ppl, His sheep, His elect), means a universal salvation.

But He, the Christ, rose for our, I.E. the believers, justification.

the first four "points" of TULIP are grave ERROR!

 

[SovereignGrace]

the first four "points" of TULIP are grave ERROR!

Total depravity? So ppl have an ability to recover themselves from their fallen condition? That is what the 'T' teaches, that ppl are unable to rescue themselves from their fallen condition.
Unconditional election? So, God saw something good in those He saved/saves? The 'U' teaches that God saves ppl based on Himself and not anything in the lost person.
Limited atonement? So the Christ died for Satan and his minions, too? If not, then you have to limit the atonement. Did the Christ atone for those who died in unbelief? In not, then the atonement is limited to believers. That's what the 'L' advocates.
Irresistible grace? So that grace that God used to save you, you resisted it even when He saved you? When He saved you, you found that grace to be irresistible. If not, you'd still be lost.

And these are gross error? Srsly?

 

[Yeshua1]

They agree with the scriptures though!