Jesus Christ was Born of Woman . . . fact or fiction?

[Walpole]

Yes. Baptism, water immersion and remembrence are seen as works of faith. And salvation is understood as a totally free gift.

I asked you in a previous post but never saw an answer: If baptism is merely symbolic and not efficacious, why go through the trouble?

If it is not efficacious, that makes it an empty ritual. If this is the case, I find it odd that Christ would replace one empty ritual by instituting another. Furthermore, if it is merely an empty ritual and not efficacious, it does not make sense that Christ tied salvation to it. (cf Mark 16:16)

Help me understand.

 

[Particular]

No - only YOUR perversion of the point is wrong.

Nowhere has anybody claimed that we don't sin physically.
We don't sin accidentally.

loDebar stated:
"sin is not physical and thus not inheritable, It is spiritual"

So, yes, it was stated that sin is not physical.

 

[Particular]

I asked you in a previous post but never saw an answer: If baptism is merely symbolic and not efficacious, why go through the trouble?

If it is not efficacious, that makes it an empty ritual. If this is the case, I find it odd that Christ would replace one empty ritual by instituting another. Furthermore, if it is merely an empty ritual and not efficacious, it does not make sense that Christ tied salvation to it. (cf Mark 16:16)

Help me understand.

Was the celebration of Passover and the symbolism in the Seder meal an empty ritual? Was God wrong in instituting it for the nation of Israel?

The efficacious immersion (baptizo) is not into water when a priest performs a ritual.
The efficacious immersion (baptizo) is when the Holy Spirit immerses the redeemed sinner into Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:3-4 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Notice that water is not the object into which we are immersed. We are immersed into Christ Jesus.
Who does the immersion? The Holy Spirit.
Baptism is a very common word in Greek. It simply means to immerse or to dip. The context tells us into what element the object is being dipped. In Romans 6, the object is not water. The object is Christ Jesus.

So, why water baptism at all, if it's not efficacious? Because water baptism is a physical symbol to the world that expresses what the Holy Spirit has accomplished when he immersed us into Christ Jesus.
Secondly, we water baptize because Jesus commissioned his children to baptize disciples who have believed (Matthew 28). This also means that infants are not baptized because they cannot confess faith in Christ. They have not, at that moment, been immersed by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus. They are sinners.
What then should happen if an infant dies as a sinner? Well, we trust that the Creator who brought them into the world will extend grace to them. David declared that he would one day see his infant child again after he died. By faith we trust the same thing for all these babies who die.
Ultimately, water has no power. Water does not save. Being dipped into water does not save.
Being immersed into Christ Jesus, however, actually...effectively...saves.

 

[MarysSon]

I'm being honest. You simply reject what the verses say and claim those folks aren't biological children of Mary and Joseph, even though the text says they are and you even admit that the Greek word allows for them to be biological brothers and sisters.
Now, enough with the foolish and non-biblical teaching that Mary was a sinless perpetual virgin. It's complete nonsense and it results in Mary worship. Mary must weep over that false teaching by your church.

What the verses say?? They don’t say anything other than Joseph and Mary are His parents and these other people are Adelphoi.

The law of averages is against you as I’ve already shown that of the 344 instances of this word in the NT – only 41 (12%) of them probably refer to uterine siblings.

In a court of law – this wouldn’t even stand up as circumstantial evidence and would be thrown out of court. Your case is as weak and impotent as a Nevada Boxing Commissioner . . .

 

[MarysSon]

loDebar stated:
"sin is not physical and thus not inheritable, It is spiritual"

So, yes, it was stated that sin is not physical.

It's not a physical ATTRIBUTE. and therefore not inheritable.

This is what I meant by your perversion of what was said. . .

 

[Particular]

What the verses say?? They don’t say anything other than Joseph and Mary are His parents and these other people are Adelphoi.

The law of averages is against you as I’ve already shown that of the 344 instances of this word in the NT – only 41 (12%) of them probably refer to uterine siblings.

In a court of law – this wouldn’t even stand up as circumstantial evidence and would be thrown out of court. Your case is as weak and impotent as a Nevada Boxing Commissioner . . .

Those other people are specifically identified as brothers and sisters. Kin.
You are working hard to avoid the facts.
I assume you do so because your church is of greater value to you than God and his word. God very clearly tells us, yet you are desperately looking for an escape clause.

 

[Particular]

It's not a physical ATTRIBUTE. and therefore not inheritable.

This is what I meant by your perversion of what was said. . .

It is a direct result of Adam's physical sin when he ate the forbidden fruit.
Second, if the body were not a part of this, then our bodies would never suffer illness or death. But we do get ill and we do physically die. This is the result of sin.
When babies are conceived they are immediately corrupted sinners in need of God's redeeming grace.

 

[loDebar]

So thinking about it is a sin, but actually doing it is not. Got it.
That's twisted.

so much so that Jesus said if "OFFENDED" or keep you from heaven, cut it off.

 

[loDebar]

That's NOT what @loDebar said.
Sin is all about INTENT.

NOT that difficult to understand . . .

Sin is of the spirit, not the body

 

[Particular]

so much so that Jesus said if "OFFENDED" or keep you from heaven, cut it off.

Cut your thoughts off?
Do you see a thought bubble when you think?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 1245 AM Pacific.

 

[Particular]

I asked you in a previous post but never saw an answer: If baptism is merely symbolic and not efficacious, why go through the trouble?

If it is not efficacious, that makes it an empty ritual. If this is the case, I find it odd that Christ would replace one empty ritual by instituting another. Furthermore, if it is merely an empty ritual and not efficacious, it does not make sense that Christ tied salvation to it. (cf Mark 16:16)

Help me understand.

.

 

[utilyan]

.

 

[loDebar]

Cut your thoughts off?
Do you see a thought bubble when you think?

NO, the spiritual is more important than the physical

Mat 5:29

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

 

[MarysSon]

Those other people are specifically identified as brothers and sisters. Kin.
You are working hard to avoid the facts.
I assume you do so because your church is of greater value to you than God and his word. God very clearly tells us, yet you are desperately looking for an escape clause.

“Kin” doesn’t mean uterine sibling.

There are brothers, step[ brothers, half brothers, cousins, uncles, nephews, neighbors, fellow countrymen and fellow believers in the NT that are ALL referred to as “Adelphos”.

Any attempt to randomly pigeonhole this word into ONE definition is a complete failure to understand the language – AND the culture.

You have been given example after example of this but in your abject blindness you refuse to accept it.

This is precisely the problem that has spawed tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism – ALL teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have been “led” by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .

 

[MarysSon]

Sin is of the spirit, not the body

Yes, I was agreeing with you, insofar as our body is not sinful. Sin is something we do in our spirit, in our soul.
Our body is simply the vessel by which we commit the sin.

 

[MarysSon]

It is a direct result of Adam's physical sin when he ate the forbidden fruit.
Second, if the body were not a part of this, then our bodies would never suffer illness or death. But we do get ill and we do physically die. This is the result of sin.
When babies are conceived they are immediately corrupted sinners in need of God's redeeming grace.

Our bodies are not the SOURCE of sin. That is the point.

If your body was the source of sin – then Christ would have been sinful because HE had a human body.

Get it now??

 

[Particular]

“Kin” doesn’t mean uterine sibling.

There are brothers, step[ brothers, half brothers, cousins, uncles, nephews, neighbors, fellow countrymen and fellow believers in the NT that are ALL referred to as “Adelphos”.

Any attempt to randomly pigeonhole this word into ONE definition is a complete failure to understand the language – AND the culture.

You have been given example after example of this but in your abject blindness you refuse to accept it.

This is precisely the problem that has spawed tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism – ALL teaching different doctrines yet ALL claiming to have been “led” by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess . . .

Yes, what a mess and pretzel you have twisted.
The plain and common sense is that Jesus brothers and sisters are the biological produce of Mary and Joseph. That Mary, like all human beings is a corrupt sinner in need of a Savior (as Mary states in her song). That prayer to Mary or any person other than God is empty and of no spiritual consequence. That there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Your insistence upon worshipping Mary as a perpetual virgin and denying the God glorifying sex between a husband and wife condemns you as having a low view of God and a high view of Mary. Such an opinion will be judged between you and God. May God be merciful to you on that day.

 

[utilyan]

Luke 1

31You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus.

Mary conceives Jesus. Ergo her EGG/DNA.




36“And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month.

 

[MarysSon]

Yes, what a mess and pretzel you have twisted.
The plain and common sense is that Jesus brothers and sisters are the biological produce of Mary and Joseph. That Mary, like all human beings is a corrupt sinner in need of a Savior (as Mary states in her song). That prayer to Mary or any person other than God is empty and of no spiritual consequence. That there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Your insistence upon worshipping Mary as a perpetual virgin and denying the God glorifying sex between a husband and wife condemns you as having a low view of God and a high view of Mary. Such an opinion will be judged between you and God. May God be merciful to you on that day.

And your insistence on being dishonest will be judged.
We don't "worship" anybody but God.

As for Mary needing a Savior - she did. He saved her at conception.